Re: [office] Proposal for clarification, enhancement and normative examples for text:list and text:numbered paragraphs in ODF1.2

[Thomas Zander <zander@kde.org>]

On Friday 16 March 2007 09:58, Florian Reuter wrote:
> Dear TC members,
>
> please find attached an alternative proposal for the "Proposal for
> clarification, enhancement and normative examples for text:list and
> text:numbered paragraphs in ODF1.2" that the TC may want to consider.

I have problems with this;
First it invalidates an already existing consensus among many of the TC 
members.

I have problems with several items;
*  "ODF 1.2 numbering should be independent from an applications counter 
implementation
 "Applications can basically follow several strategies when maintaining the 
internal counters. Together with the text:start-value of the list style the 
choice of the internal strategy may have a serious impact on the resulting 
numbering."

There is no case for this statement. If an application wants to support ODF 
style counting, more then the import filter *may* have to be altered. 
Features may have to be added.
Please remove that clause

* "Changing the number formatting of a list is current definetly not possible 
in ODF1.0/ODF1.1."

Actually, it is.  And KWord is already doing it as proof of that point.

*  "Clarify the description for continue-numbering"
  "If the value of the attribute is true and the numbering style of the 
preceding list is different to the current list, the numbers of the nearest 
preceeding list with the same list style is continued."

This proposal gives me problems on several items;
numbered paragraphs don't know about a preceding list as they are paragraphs, 
not lists. This means that the requirement for the same list style has the 
effect that you can no longer do the thing the rest of the paragraph states 
should be possible. That is; mixing styles in a list.


* "The relationship between a text:list and a sequence of 
text:numbered-paragraphs is established by the text:style-name."

It is unwanted to have a style determine content.  Changing a style should 
change the markup thoughout the document, as was the idea behind styles. 
Altering the style associated with a particular list to be different from the 
preceding list makes it harder to change the look and feel of a document as a 
whole.

* Normative examples.
Unfortunately various of the numbered paragraph examples do not reflect the 
actual usage by the only application that reads/writes those. I suggest you 
study that application and come up with examples that closer resemble the 
actual real world usage. Backwards compatibility is very important and should 
not be ignored by reinterpreting rules after the fact.

* Using the concept of continuing the numbering by default all through the 
document does not reflect real world usage of ODF so far. Especially wrt 
numbered paragraphs. The TC has had at least 5 people speak up over the last 
week stating that assuming one style means one list does not work for them.
Please change your proposal to reflect that opinion.

Cheers!
-- 
Thomas Zander

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