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Subject: Re: [office] ODF Next proposal "Floating Table Positioning" - Was:[office] Feature under evaluation at Redflag 2000
Hi Peter, sorry for not replying yesterday. I just wanted to wait until my transition form corporate to individual member of the TC is finished. Peter Korn wrote: > Peter, Shuran, > > Just scanned through this proposal. Assuming that the floating table > behaves the same as "normal" tables, my biggest concerns from an > accessibility perspective are: > > * How does a tool that exports ODF to some other format (e.g. DAISY) > know where to place the table within the overall flow of the document? I think this is handled on application level, but not with ODF. Applications implementing ODF should certainly manage the appropriate position of absolutely positioned tables and export it to DAISY. This is already possible for <draw:frame> and the proposed change to table properties is just a verbatim copy of the <draw:frame> positioning properties, as far as I understand Shuran. Please correct me if I'm wrong. > * How does someone navigate to within the table for editing it > without using the mouse? The proposal only adds positioning properties to tables, but doesn't touch any GUI relevant functionality, hence table editing is expected to work the same way as before. > > You note below: "Accessibility should be handled in the same way as with > other shapes." I suggest that with respect to keyboard operability, > that is not a good plan. Editing shapes that are floating within a page > requires a different keyboard navigation scheme, which then brings up an > editor, etc. etc. (kinda like tables within a presentation file). I > suggest that we could address both of the two bullet points above in the > same way - that "placement within the document flow" is the same as > "keyboard navigation flow", such that arrowing downward through a > document text would at some point reach into the floating table, and > then eventually come out of the floating table and into the document - > in the same "place" for document flow purposes when exported to DAISY > (or HTML for that matter, which doesn't have a "floating table" concept > unless implemented with something like iframes). Again, export to other formats seems to be an implementation issue. My idea to handle the keyboard operability for floating tables would be: - Add floating table to selection order of all shapes, toggle with <TAB> - If the floating table is selected, then behave exactly as <draw:frame> - Define action to enter edit mode, likely hit <ENTER> key - If the table is in edit more, then behave as any other table. Best regards, Peter > >> Dear TC members, >> >> please find the "Floating Table Positioning" proposal for ODF Next >> attached as ODF document and below in plain text, mainly drafted by my >> colleague Hua Shuran. >> >> We will also add the document to the wiki soon. >> >> Best regards, >> Peter >> >> Summary >> ======= >> >> Proposal by: >> ------------ >> Shuran Hua, huashuran@redoffice.com <mailto:huashuran@redoffice.com> >> >> Proposal short name: >> -------------------- >> Floating Table Positioning >> >> Abstract: >> --------- >> This proposal introduces absolute positioning properties for tables, >> strongly similar to those of <draw:frame>, please refer ODF 1.2, CD02, >> section 9.4.2. >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32431/OpenDocument-v1.2-cd02.odt >> >> >> Rationale >> ========= >> >> Use cases: >> ---------- >> Floating tables are tables in a document which are not part of the >> main text flow, rather they are absolutely positioned on a specific >> page allowin users increased flexibility for the layout of their >> documents. >> Adding the feature will also increase interoperability with both UOF >> and OOXML, as they already know similar features. >> >> Alternatives considered: >> ------------------------ >> None. >> >> Requested changes to the ODF Standard >> ===================================== >> >> Text changes/additions: >> ----------------------- >> 1) Add certain new properties to 16.7 <style:table-properties> as >> following (with text added in orange): >> >> 16.7 <style:table-properties> >> … >> The <style:table-properties> element has the following attributes: >> … table:display 18.404, draw:z-index 17.235, style:horizontal-pos >> 18.288, style:horizontal-rel 18.289, style:vertical-pos 18.385, >> style:vertical-rel 18.386, svg:x 18.399, svg:y 18.400 and >> style:allowoverlap 18.424. >> … >> >> 2) Update the references in sections 17.235 draw:z-index, 18.288 >> style:horizontal-pos, 18.289 style:horizontal-rel, 18.385 >> style:vertical-pos, 18.386 style:vertical-rel, 18.399 svg:x and 18.400 >> svg:y. >> Exemplary the changes for 17.235 draw:z-index (with text added in >> orange): >> >> 17.235 draw:z-index >> The draw:z-index attribute defines a rendering order for shapes and >> tables in a document instance. Shapes are rendered in the order in >> which they appear in the document in the absence of this attribute. As >> the attribute of the <style:table-properties>, draw:z-index is used >> to mark the layers of each table when the value of style:allowoverlap >> attribute is set to true >> attribute-draw:z-index >> The draw:z-index attribute is usable with the following elements: >> <dr3d:cube>, [...], <draw:regular-polygon>, <office:annotation> and >> <style:table-properties>. >> The draw:z-index attribute has the data type nonNegativeInteger. >> >> 3) Add section 18.424 style:allowoverlap: >> >> 18.424 style:allowoverlap >> The style:allowoverlap attribute specifies whether the current object >> shall allow other objects to overlap its extents when the objects are >> displayed in a document. This attribute can have a value of true or >> false. >> If true, then no adjustment shall be made to prevent objects whose >> properties would normally cause them to overlap from overlapping when >> displayed. >> If false, then the objects shall be adjusted as needed to prevent them >> from overlapping when displayed by adjusting the floating objects >> properties as needed. >> The default value for this attribute is false. >> The style:allowoverlap attribute is usable with the following element: >> <style:table-properties> 16.7. >> The style:allowoverlap attribute has the data type boolean. >> >> Note: The above given section numbers are regarding >> “OpenDocument-v1.2-cd02.odt” >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32431/OpenDocument-v1.2-cd02.odt >> >> >> Schema changes/additions: >> ------------------------- >> Add the following definitions (text added in orange) in >> “OpenDocument-schema-v1.2-cd02.rng”: >> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/32433/OpenDocument-schema-v1.2-cd02.rng.zip >> >> 17640<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17641<ref name="common-background-color-attlist"/> >> 17642</define> >> 17643<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17644 <optional> >> 17645 <attribute name="style:horizontal-pos"> >> 17646 <choice> >> 17647 <value>left</value> >> 17648 <value>center</value> >> 17649 <value>right</value> >> 17650 <value>from-left</value> >> 17651 <value>inside</value> >> 17652 <value>outside</value> >> 17653 <value>from-inside</value> >> 17654 </choice> >> 17655 </attribute> >> 17656 </optional> >> 17657 <optional> >> 17658 <attribute name="svg:x"> >> 17659 <ref name="coordinate"/> >> 17660 </attribute> >> 17661 </optional> >> 17662</define> >> 17663<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17664 <optional> >> 17665 <attribute name="style:horizontal-rel"> >> 17666 <choice> >> 17667 <value>page</value> >> 17668 <value>page-content</value> >> 17669 <value>page-start-margin</value> >> 17670 <value>page-end-margin</value> >> 17671 <value>frame</value> >> 17672 <value>frame-content</value> >> 17673 <value>frame-start-margin</value> >> 17674 <value>frame-end-margin</value> >> 17675 <value>paragraph</value> >> 17676 <value>paragraph-content</value> >> 17677 <value>paragraph-start-margin</value> >> 17678 <value>paragraph-end-margin</value> >> 17679 <value>char</value> >> 17680 </choice> >> 17681 </attribute> >> 17682 </optional> >> 17683</define> >> 17684<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17685 <ref name="common-vertical-pos-attlist"/> >> 17686</define> >> 17687<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17688 <ref name="common-vertical-rel-attlist"/> >> 17689</define> >> 17690<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17691 <ref name="common-allowoverlap-attlist"/> >> 17692</define> >> 17693<define name="common-allowoverlap-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17694 <optional> >> 17695 <attribute name="style:allowoverlap"> >> 17696 <ref name="boolean"/> >> 17697 </attribute> >> 17698 </optional> >> 17699</define> >> 17700<define name="style-table-properties-attlist" combine="interleave"> >> 17701 <ref name="common-draw-z-index-attlist"/> >> 17702</define> >> >> Impacts >> ======= >> >> Conformance: >> ------------ >> Does this proposal add any mandatory features or behaviors to ODF >> documents or applications? >> This feature should be mandatory for all products implementing 'ODF >> Next'. >> >> Backwards compatibility: >> ------------------------ >> If we make this change, what will be the impact on existing ODF >> processors? >> Existing ODF processors are expected to ignore the floating table >> positioning feature. >> >> Accessibility impact: >> --------------------- >> Will this feature require review by the Accessibility Subcommittee? >> For example, does it add structure to the document that can be >> navigated, store a user-viewable string or associate a label with >> content? >> Accessibility should be handled in the same way as with other shapes. >> >> Workflow (to be filled in by TC Chairs) >> ======================================= >> >> Category: CategoryNewProposal >> Date Proposal initially made: >> Dates Proposal discussed on TC calls: >> Date vote is requested: >> Date vote is held: >> Results of vote: >> >> >> >> Peter Junge wrote: >>> Dear TC members, >>> >>> our team at Redflag 2000 is currently evaluating a feature related to >>> tables in word processors, we call 'Floating Table Positioning'. So >>> far, tables cannot be absolutely positioned in ODF text documents, >>> except they are embedded in a "draw:frame" element, please refer >>> section 9.4.2 in ODF 1.2, Part 1, CD03[1]. Other document standards, >>> namely OOXML (section 17.4.60 tblPr, Part 1, ISO 29500, Page 484) and >>> UOF support absolute positioning of tables in text documents, quite >>> similar to "draw:frame" in ODF, so we would like to submit a proposal >>> that adds this feature in order to increase interoperability. >>> >>> Consequently, I would like to raise two questions: >>> >>> 1) Is any TC member already working on a similar feature? >>> >>> 2) Considering such feature seems to be quite obvious, as well it is >>> quite easy to add, hence I would like to know if there is a telling >>> argument, why it hasn't made it into ODF yet? >>> >>> Best regards, >>> Peter >>> >>> [1] >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/33633/OpenDocument-v1.2-part1-cd03.odt >>> >>> >> >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >> generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
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