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Subject: Re: [office] SC34 Ballot N1414 "New Work Item Proposal on Document Packaging"
Dave, On 6/6/2010 2:05 AM, Dave Pawson wrote: > On 5 June 2010 17:51,<robert_weir@us.ibm.com> wrote: > >> Dave Pawson<dave.pawson@gmail.com> wrote on 06/05/2010 03:44:27 AM: >> >> >>> Re: [office] SC34 Ballot N1414 "New Work Item Proposal on Document >>> >> Packaging" >> >>> On 4 June 2010 21:21, Thorsten Behrens<tbehrens@novell.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>>> Surely the work item proposal asks for an _independent_ standard? Or >>>> am I getting you wrong here? >>>> >>> No, that is the focus of the work. Wouldn't expect Rob to have >>> understood that, but it is key. >>> >>> "... how is it possible to readily create a perfectly interoperable >>> version of ZIP without infringing PKWARE's copyright? For all these >>> reasons it seems that the proposal brings the risk of a legal >>> challenge." >>> >>> That is just a little key to this. >>> >>> >> >> I think I've been perfectly consistent on this. I do not favor taking a >> single vendor's technology and turning it into an ISO standard. >> > I didn't think you understood it Rob. > Read Thorstens email again. > > What part of Thorsten's email would you draw our attention to? Thorsten wrote (his entire comment): > Surely the work item proposal asks for an_independent_ standard? Or > am I getting you wrong here? > > I otherwise tend to agree with Dennis, there's merit to have > properly standardized what we're referencing, instead of reliance on > single-vendor goodwill ... > Reading the NP, it is difficult to see exactly what is being proposed (satisfy yourself in that regard, http://www.itscj.ipsj.or.jp/sc34/open/1414.pdf). From the NP: > Scope: This proposal is for an International Standard that specifies a > minimal file format for combining > multiple resources into a single resource (termed a “package”). Stored > resources are optionally > compressed, and have some technical associated metadata, such as a > checksum. For packages in > which stored resources are XML documents, the proposed standard shall > specify mechanisms by which > such documents, and the relationships between them, may be exposed for > validation purposes. Not clear what a "minimal file format" means but read on: Annex A says (in part): > One increasingly common approach is to specify formats in which XML > documents and other digital > resources are stored together in an archive based on a minimal > implementation of what is known as the > “ZIP” format. .... > However, despite the widespread use of the ZIP format, it has never > been standardized. > Such a pervasive format as ZIP would benefit greatly from being an > International Standard. In practice, > formats using ZIP for document packaging use a small and > well-established subset of the overall current > non-standard technology which can be quickly standardized. SC 34 has > had strong indications from its > experts and liaisons that a standardized, ZIP-compatible Document > Packaging format would be of > immense value, and wishes to ballot this NP to gather member body > feedback. So, on one had, ZIP will benefit from being standardized (I would think it already is "standardized" since everyone is successfully using it but I digress.) and yet now we are talking about a "...small and well-established subset of the overall current non-standard technology...." Hmmm, must mean non-standardized in the sense of no ISO stamp, not non-standardized in the sense of lack of interoperability. Then, the deliverables of the project: > • Specification of a minimal compressed archive format suitable for > immediate use with the > document standards named above > • Specification of XML serializations of archive data for validation > purposes > • Specification of a mechanism for exposing archived document > structure, when those archived > documents are XML Err, now we are at: "specification of a minimal compressed archive format suitable for immediate use...." So, it could mean: 1) Standardize the poor non-standardized (but apparently used as a standard) ZIP format. ;-) 2) Standardize some minimal sub-set of the ZIP format. 3) Standardize some "minimal compressed archive format" for use with: > • ISO/IEC 26300 (Open Document Format for Office Applications) > • ISO/IEC 29500 (Office Open XML) > • EPUB ( standardized by The International Digital Publishing Forum > http://www.idpf.org/ ) > • W3C Widget Packaging and Configuration > • ADL SCORM ( http://www.adlnet.gov/Technologies/scorm/ ) In which case I don't know that it involves ZIP at all, perhaps this is the "independent" reading. All realizing that compression is only one aspect of defining a packaging convention. Even assuming reading #3, there is no common expertise in SC 34 for dealing with the compression aspects of a packaging specification. Moreover, although I am hardly considered a capitalist by money grubbing capitalists, ;-), I do balk at simply appropriating a part of a vendor's core technology for standardization. Even if the vendor allows it to be freely used by others. (We could at least ask first.) PKWare may not have all the trappings of a public service but they have done more to be of service to the software community (and the public) than many organizations I could name. As they say, "pretty is as pretty does." Hope you are having a great weekend! Patrick -- Patrick Durusau patrick@durusau.net Chair, V1 - US TAG to JTC 1/SC 34 Convener, JTC 1/SC 34/WG 3 (Topic Maps) Editor, OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300 Co-Editor, ISO/IEC 13250-1, 13250-5 (Topic Maps) Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net Homepage: http://www.durusau.net Twitter: patrickDurusau
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