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Subject: Re: [office-comment] FW: ODF 1.2 is published ISO standard since 2015-06-17


Hi Dennis,

we will look at your comments in the next TC meeting. I put the TC mailing list on CC.

Dennis E. Hamilton schrieb:
[from your first mail]
1. It is not necessary to pay the ISO/IEC Swiss Franks tax for those documents.  They are available as Publicly Available standards at <http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html>.  (Scroll way down to ISO/IEC 26300-1:2015 and those below.)

Oh, good to know. That is new to me, that ISO offers standards for free.

2. There was an agreement that the previous ODF 1.1 Standards (and the Addenda/Corrigenda) would remain available as ISO/IEC 26300:20?? (not 2015).  That does not seem to have happened.

It seems so. I can find it in the catalog using the search
http://www.iso.org/iso/home/search.htm?qt=26300&sort=rel&type=simple&published=on
But when I try to buy it, they tell me, it is not available. In case they will no longer sell it, I would expect, that it is listed in the "Publicly Available standards".

3. There is a fourth document, having no part number, that provides important information about the three parts that are published.  (I suppose, technically, it is ISO/IEC 26300-0:2015).  The problem with this ungainly part being omitted is that it includes the Conformance Requirements for ODF 1.2 that apply to parts 1-3.  I don't believe those have been moved.

[From this mail]

Here's an example of the disconnect with the definitions in Part 0.

In ISO/IEC 26300-1:2015(E), section 2.2.2 begins with the clearly normative provisions

"2.2 Documents

"2.2.1 OpenDocument Document

"An *OpenDocument* *document* shall meet the following requirements:

"A) If the document is an OpenDocument package, then

"   A 1) It shall be a conforming OpenDocument package (C19)

    ... ."

The reference (C19) is not linked to anything.  However, there is no such clause in 26300-1:2015(E) section 2.2.1 or elsewhere (including Part 3).

C19 is in Part 0.  It appears there under

"2 Conformance

  ...

(C19) A *conforming* *OpenDocument* *Package* shall meet the requirements defined in part 3 section 2.2.1 and chapters 3 to 7 for OpenDocument packages."


There are further references in Part E of section 2.2.1. And I find further references of that kind in section 2.3.1 in part 2.

In this missing document I read on page 1,
"This specification consists of this document as well as the following documents, schemas and ontologies: ..."
So it is evident that it belongs to the specification.

For ODF 1.3 the intro will be included in the numbering; it will be a "Version 1.3. Part 1: Introduction". I hope that will avoid such errors.

[I note that *conforming* and *Conforming* though italicized here, are not capitalized consistently as they should be when used as part of proper nouns for defined normative terms.  This also happens with various usages of "package" and "document" in such terms.]


It seems, that it is lower case, when it is a property of a document and it is uppercase, when it is part of the identifiers "Conforming OpenDocument ... Producer", "Conforming OpenDocument ... Evaluator", and "Conforming OpenDocument ... Consumer". But italicization is not consistent.

I also note that in Part 1 and Part 3 there are *normative* uses of the schemas, as in Part 1 section 2.2.1's clause,

"B3) if the XML root element of a file is ..., then the XML file shall be valid with respect to the schema defined in Appendix A."

Appendix A does not contain the schema, unfortunately.  It refers to the link to Related Work in the introductory pages.  Those are indeed on numbered page 2 (PDF page 6) and, unfortunately, the URLs are not there, just named links, so print loses them, even though there is the statement that "OpenDocument v1.2 part 1 defines these ... ."  The links are to an OASIS location.  Also, when I attempt to follow that link I get "Security Block: Acrobat does not allow connection to docs.oasis-open.org."  I have no idea what that is about but it has been the case for some time.


The links in the pdf version of ISO work for me. I get those documents from the OASIS site. When you cannot access them, that is likely a security setting in your system.

(Since the PDF is included in a Zip, it would have been very nice to put the two schemas in the Zip download of Part 1 from ISO.)

Including them in the Zip would indeed be helpful for people.


Finally, I note that the IS 26300-1:2015 PDF still carries the title of "OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) Version 1.2 - Part 1: OpenDocument Schema" and that is presented by Acrobat Reader in its Window Title when I view the PDF.

I guess, that it is intentional, because they state on page iii of part 3, "The content of ISO/IEC 26300-3 and OASIS OpenDocument
v1.0 2nd ed. is identical." and similar for part 2 and part 1.


  - Dennis

PS: I have to keep from feeling guilty about this.
     I must remind myself that I was no longer on the ODF TC when submission to JTC1 finally occurred (although I could have caught the references in Parts 1, 2, and 3 that are actually to Part 0 and I could have noticed that there were three ballots and not 4 at JTC1 SC34), and that ITTF is just not very collaborative/collegial when they go off and edit stuff and don't seem to have any of the subject-matter experts check their work.
     I may have been a co-conspirator in thinking that Parts 1-3 are self-contained without section 2 of Part 0.  It is too long ago for my memory to be reliable about this, since TC work ended on ODF 1.2 around mid-2011 and I was exhausted with the ODF 1.1 alignment work (26300:2006 AMD 1).


It is very helpful, that you are still watching the work :)

Kind regards
Regina



-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 13:48
To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: [office-comment] FW: ODF 1.2 is published ISO standard since 2015-06-17

-----Original Message-----
From: Dennis E. Hamilton [mailto:dennis.hamilton@acm.org]
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 13:36
To: dev@openoffice.apache.org; 'LO dev fdo'
Subject: RE: ODF 1.2 is published ISO standard since 2015-06-17

Thanks Regina, that is great news.

A few somewhat serious items:

  1. It is not necessary to pay the ISO/IEC Swiss Franks tax for those documents.  They are available as Publicly Available standards at <http://standards.iso.org/ittf/PubliclyAvailableStandards/index.html>.  (Scroll way down to ISO/IEC 26300-1:2015 and those below.)

  2. There was an agreement that the previous ODF 1.1 Standards (and the Addenda/Corrigenda) would remain available as ISO/IEC 26300:20?? (not 2015).  That does not seem to have happened.

  3. There is a fourth document, having no part number, that provides important information about the three parts that are published.  (I suppose, technically, it is ISO/IEC 26300-0:2015).  The problem with this ungainly part being omitted is that it includes the Conformance Requirements for ODF 1.2 that apply to parts 1-3.  I don't believe those have been moved.
     Because of this, I recommend that folks download the authoritative ODF 1.2 specifications from OASIS, since the text is presumably identical, with substitution of ISO/IEC covers and front matter.
     The full set of all forms of the OASIS ODF 1.2 specifications can be downloaded in a handy Zip, with the necessary schemas and all parts -- PDF, ODT, and HTML.  Go to <http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/> and take what you want or get the entire package by downloading OpenDocument-v1.2-os.zip.

I will forward these comments to SC34 WG6 and the OASIS ODF TC Comment List.

  - Dennis

-----Original Message-----
From: Regina Henschel [mailto:rb.henschel@t-online.de]
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 11:34
To: AOO dev; LO dev fdo
Subject: ODF 1.2 is published ISO standard since 2015-06-17

Hi all,

only to inform you:

ODF 1.2 is a published ISO standard since 2015-06-17. It has the numbers
ISO/IEC 26300-1:2015, ISO/IEC 26300-2:2015, and ISO/IEC 26300-3:2015.

http://www.iso.org/iso/home/store/catalogue_tc/catalogue_detail.htm?csnumber=66363

Kind regards
Regina

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