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Subject: Draft ODF TC minutes for 28 September 2015


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Greetings!

The draft minutes from September 28, 2015 are attached. These will
appear on the final agenda for our meeting on 23 November 2015.

After approval I will upload these (with any corrections) to the ODF
repository.

Hope everyone is having a great week!

Patrick
- -- 
Patrick Durusau
patrick@durusau.net
Technical Advisory Board, OASIS (TAB)
OpenDocument Format TC (OASIS), Project Editor ISO/IEC 26300
Co-Editor 13250-5 (Topic Maps)

Another Word For It (blog): http://tm.durusau.net
Homepage: http://www.durusau.net
Twitter: patrickDurusau

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ODF TC Minutes, 28 September 2015.

Start 9:00 AM

Agenda:

1. Dial-In, Roll Call, Determination of Quorum and Voting Rights

Roll Call: 9:05

Thorsten Behrens

+Patrick Durusau

+Andreas Guelzow

+Regina Henschel

Thomas O'Reilly

Chris Rae

+Michael Stahl

+Adras Timar

+Jos van den Oever

+Oliver-Rainer Wittman

7 out of 8 voting members 87%

87% quorom

2. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Agenda

Agenda approved.

3. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Minutes from former (previous) TC calls

- 2015-06-22 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56461/ODF-TC-Minutes-22June2015.txt

- 2015-07-06 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56462/ODF-TC-Minutes-6July2015.txt

- 2015-08-03 - working call - pending

- 2015-08-17 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56463/ODF-TC-Minutes-17-August-2015.txt

- 2015-08-31 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56464/ODF-TC-Minutes-31-August-2015.txt

Change Jos' name to correction

- 2015-09-14 - pending

Minutes are approved.

5.  Progress on putting the specification documents in svn (I will have some comments about documents I will upload before the meeting)

Pending. This Weds.

6. ODF Maintenance Update (ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, Errata etc.)

No report.

8. JIRA Issues for discussion:

Office-568

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-568

Patrick: Office-568 Close as application level issue.


Office-566

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-566

Open issue. Regina Henschel points out that heading numbering and using styles is not clear in 1.2 and should be improved.


Office-550

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-550

Jos van den Oever: possible solution to this problem: http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/the-program/talks/quality-assurance/#Unit%20Verification%20and%20Dimensional%20Analysis%20for%20error%20detection%20in%20LibreOffice%20Calc

Patrick: Could be implemented using RDF (Jos)

Jos van den Oever: One can also tie unit information to spreadsheet cells with RDF or a separate namespace in ODF 1.2 extended.

Jos van den Oever: Yes, potentially useful, but too large for 1.3

Jos van den Oever: Perhaps Andrzej Hunt wants to write a draft spec for it based on his work so far

Office-550 be set for ODF-Next [Note, now ODF-Later]


Office-535

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-535

Office-534

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-534

Patrick: Propose Office-535 and 534 be closed.

Office-535 and 534 will be closed.


Office-513

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-513

Jos van den Oever: implementations can have their own custom function which do this

Jos van den Oever: agreed that there should be an implementation that does this external calling of a function from a spreadsheet first

Propose to close Office-513 in the absence of an implemenation with this function

Close Office-513 with the comment on the absence of an implementation with this function


Office-499

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-499

Jos van den Oever: duplicate of office-550

Close as duplicate of Office-550

No objections - close as duplicate of Office-550


Office-498

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-498

Jos van den Oever: DISTINCT could be implemented with 6.4.7Infix Operator "="

Propose set OFFICE-498 to ODF-Next

Set OFFICE-498 to ODF-Next [Now ODF-Later]


Office-497

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-497

Propose ODF-Next

Set to ODF-Next [Now ODF-Later]


Office-452

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-452

Propose ODF-Next

Set to ODF-Next [Now ODF-Later]


Office-439

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-439

Set to close.


Office-426

https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-426

http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-style_page-layout-properties

http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#__RefHeading__1420170_253892949

Tom O`Reilly: Would vertical justification take into account other elements on the page?

Jos van den Oever: I think it should. It's quite tricky to implement i think.

Propose Office-426 for ODF-Next

set OFFICE-426 for ODF-Next [Now ODF-Later]

9. Target date for ODF 1.3 and its probable contents?

10. New comments on the comments list since last TC call
[none so far]

11.  Adjournment

Adjourn - 10:35 AM



*****chat log*****

Please change your name from 'anonymous' using the Settings button

anonymous morphed into Patrick

Patrick: Proposed Agenda:

1. Dial-In, Roll Call, Determination of Quorum and Voting Rights

2. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Agenda

3. Motion (simple majority): Approve the Minutes from former TC calls

- 2015-06-22 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56461/ODF-TC-Minutes-22June2015.txt

- 2015-07-06 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56462/ODF-TC-Minutes-6July2015.txt

- 2015-08-03 - working call - pending

- 2015-08-17 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56463/ODF-TC-Minutes-17-August-2015.txt

- 2015-08-31 - https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/download.php/56464/ODF-TC-Minutes-31-August-2015.txt

- 2015-09-14 - pending

5.  Progress on putting the specification documents in svn (I will have some comments about documents I will upload before the meeting)

6. ODF Maintenance Update (ODF 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, Errata etc.)

8. JIRA Issues for discussion:

Office-602 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-602 - Unclear sentence in 2.5 of ODF 1.0

Propose: close Note: fixed in 1.2, possibly an errata for 1.0 but I would not bother.

Office-568 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-568 - Change tracking issue

Propose: 1.3 Note: Related to change tracking. Wants tracking stored in separate file, external to the package? Punt to change tracking SC.

Office-566 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-566 - Concerns and Wants Related to Text Sections in OD v 1.1+

Propose: 1.3 Note: The comment at: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200712/msg00005.html is complex and I haven't worked out what may be missing from our current definitions. Anyone else want to take a crack at it?

Office-550 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-550 -   Re: [office-comment] Unit system tracking

Propose: close Note: Wheeler says there is no experience in spreadsheets with unit system tracking, suggest we not go there.

Office-535 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-535 - Unclear sentence in 2.1.1 of ODF 1.0 [N0942#40]

Propose: close Note: Fixed in ODF 1.2

Office-534 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-534 - Unclear sentence in 2.1.1 of ODF 1.0 [N0942#41]

Propose: close Note: Fixed in 1.2 see Office-2053

Office-513 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-513 - Interface META-functions

Propose: close Note: Commenter says every spreadsheet lacks a function to send data to external application and import the results. Should we be the first? Implementers?

Office-499 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-499 - Data Type Specification and Conversion like in FORTRESS

Propose: close Note: One of the spreadsheet experts needs to comment, don't we already have this in OpenFormula 4 Types?

Office-498 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-498 - DISTINCT Values

Propose: close Note: Eike points out this is already possible in spreadsheets but not a pre-defined function (this is predefined in Xquery by the way)

Office-497 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-498 - Very Weak String Support in ODF

Propose: 1.3? Note: Wheeler deferred because of lack of experience with requested functions. Implementers?

Office-452 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-452 -  RFE: Colour space capability within OpenDocument

Propose: 1.3? Note: High end color features, including: 1. ability to specify colours in terms of CMY, CMYK;  2. ability to specify an RGB colour space (e.g., sRGB) for  conversion purposes;  3. ability to load images etc. in formats such as CMYK, and retain RGB conversions for future use (that is, for RGB display  purposes), since different applications will convert them  differently (or be unable to convert them);   4. support for ISO 15076 (ICC Color Profiles) - see, e.g., the work in CSS3: http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-iccprof;   5. some degree of support for Pantone(?)  Interest from implementers?

Office-439 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-439 -  "page" in 15.3.4 Border Line Width of ODF 1.0 [N0942#89]

Propose: close Note: Fixed a long time ago.

Office-426 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-439 - RFE: Vertical Justification

Propose: 1.3? Note: See 20.388 for one method of achieving this effect with no changes. Biggest problem is that ODF has no defined page geometry. That would be very useful but also a big ask. Doable, particularly if we borrowed the xsl:fo model.

Office- 353 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-353 - Alternative Glyphs

Propose: 1.3? Note: Is this an issue? There is no generic Unicode font so every font you specify with styles is a choice of glyphs.

Regina Henschel comments:

*****

I have looked at issue OFFICE-353,
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-353

I suggest to close it as duplicate of issue OFFICE-3414,
Public Comment: Proposal for adding Font Feature support to ODF
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-3414

Issue 3414 has a detailed description of the problem in the document which is attached to the public comment.

https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/201008/pdf00000.pdf

https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/201509/msg00012.html
*****

Office-298 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-298 -  Seeks formal content model of ODF

Propose: 1.3 Note: Requests a formal data model (UML, etc.) - Would help with the change tracking but also a lot of work. Quite old, 2006.

Office-296 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-296 -  Would like ODF to allow "semantic markup at smaller granularities than at the document level"

Propose: close Note: Updated to be a new feature and one that is satisfied by our current RDF support. Suggest close.

Office-286 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-286 - Proposal to allow multiple markups within an ODF document

Propose: 1.3? Note: Embedding non-ODF markup/code for processing by non-ODF applications. Interest from implementers?

Office-260 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-260 -  Broken link on PDF page 2

Propose: close Note: Close as we verify all links for drafts.

Office-228 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-228 Font Embedding

Regina Henschel suggests:

*****

I have looked at issue OFFICE-228 "Public Comment: Font Embedding"
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-228

Font embedding is already possible in ODF 1.2. LibreOffice has implemented it. It uses the element "svg:font-face-uri", child of "svg:font-face-src", child of "style:font-face". The font-file is stored in a folder "Fonts" in the package and as element "office:binary-data" in the flat format. As far as I see, nothing of that violates the standard.

There exists issue OFFICE-2600 "folder structure for scripts, media..."
https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-2600

I suggest to use that issue, if it is intended to standardize the structure for storing the font-files in the package.

My suggestion: Comment in issue OFFICE-228, that font embedding is already possible with ODF1.2 and that the structure will be discussed in OFFICE-2600. Then close the issue with resolution "no action".

https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/office/email/archives/201509/msg00011.html
*****

Propose comment and close as suggested by Regina.

Office-220 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-220 - Annotating the RelaxNG schema of ODF

Propose: close? Note: The proposed annotation returns 404. Unless someone on the TC wants to annotate a separate version of the schema. Changed to new feature.

Office-212 https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-212 - Integrate "Intelligence Community Information Security Markings" with ODF?

Propose: 1.3? Note: 404 for link in email. Try: http://www.dni.gov/index.php/about/organization/chief-information-officer/information-security-marking-metadata Could this be adapted to our RDF metadata? Worth contacting the government to see if they will contribute work cycles.

9. Target date for ODF 1.3 and its probable contents?

10. New comments on the comments list since last TC call
[none so far]

11.  Adjournment

anonymous morphed into Jos van den Oever

Tom O`Reilly: Good Morning

Patrick: I'm here but someone is mowing right outside my open office door.

Jos van den Oever: hello everyone

Patrick: That is just the proposed agenda

Jos van den Oever: With all this text already in the chat i feared i was an hour late. 

Tom O`Reilly:  Do you think the mowing will take long?

anonymous morphed into Thorsten Behrens

Thorsten Behrens: hi guys,

Thorsten Behrens: sorry for being late

Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: I agree to Patrick's proposal regarding OFFICE-602

Jos van den Oever: seems like my audio died, i agree with keeping 568 open for 1.3

Jos van den Oever: "I propose that the ODF address this issue by requiring that such history
data be stored in an external file rather than the original document by
default"

Patrick: Office-568 - Close, this is an application level issue.

Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: +1

Patrick: Close Office-568 as suggested.

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-566

Regina Henschel: The comment about only allowing paragraphs is correct for Odf1.1, but it is solved already in ODF1.2.

Regina Henschel: The handling of heading numbering and of using styles is indeed not clear in the specification and has to be improved.

Patrick: Modify issue to contain Regina

Patrick: Regina's modification for 1.3

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-550

Jos van den Oever: possible solution to this problem: http://conference.libreoffice.org/2015/the-program/talks/quality-assurance/#Unit%20Verification%20and%20Dimensional%20Analysis%20for%20error%20detection%20in%20LibreOffice%20Calc

Patrick: Could be implemented using RDF (Jos)

Jos van den Oever: One can also tie unit information to spreadsheet cells with RDF or a separate namespace in ODF 1.2 extended.

Jos van den Oever: Yes, potentially useful, but too large for 1.3

Patrick: Propose Office-550 be set for ODF-Next

Jos van den Oever: Perhaps Andrzej Hunt wants to write a draft spec for it based on his work so far

Patrick: Office-550 will be set for ODF-Next

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-535

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-534

Patrick: Propose Office-535 and 534 be closed.

Jos van den Oever: agreed

Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: +1

Patrick: Office-535 and 534 will be closed.

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-513

Jos van den Oever: implementations can have their own custom function which do this

Jos van den Oever: agreed that there should be an implementation that does this external calling of a function from a spreadsheet first

Patrick: Propose to close Office-513 in the absence of an implemenation with this function

Tom O`Reilly: agreed

Patrick: Close Office-513 with the comment on the absence of an implementation with this function

Tom O`Reilly: the bird chirping sounds nice. 

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-499

Jos van den Oever: duplicate of office-550

Patrick: Close as duplicate of Office-550

Patrick: No objections - close as duplicate of Office-550

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-498

Jos van den Oever: DISTINCT could be implemented with 6.4.7Infix Operator "="

Patrick: Propose set OFFICE-498 to ODF-Next

Patrick: Set OFFICE-498 to ODF-Next

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-452

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-497

Patrick: Propose ODF-Next

Patrick: Set to ODF-Next

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-452

Patrick: Propose ODF-Next

Patrick: Set to ODF-Next

Patrick: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-439

Patrick: Set to close.

Jos van den Oever: https://issues.oasis-open.org/browse/OFFICE-426

Jos van den Oever: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#element-style_page-layout-properties

Jos van den Oever: http://docs.oasis-open.org/office/v1.2/os/OpenDocument-v1.2-os-part1.html#__RefHeading__1420170_253892949

Tom O`Reilly: Would vertical justification take into account other elements on the page?

Jos van den Oever: I think it should. It's quite tricky to implement i think.

Patrick: Propose Office-426 for ODF-Next

Patrick: set OFFICE-426 for ODF-Next

Oliver-Rainer Wittmann: bye

Thorsten Behrens: bye guys!

Andras Timar: bye


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