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Subject: OIC TC 2009-07-01 Meeting Minutes
OIC TC 2009-07-01 COORDINATION CALL
Date: Wednesday, 1 July 2009
Time: 13:30 - 14:30 UT
1. LOGISTICS
---------
The chat room: http://webconf.soaphub.org/conf/room/oic (doesn't count as attendance)
The call-in numbers: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200903/msg00017.html
*** NOTE: A New Pass Code has been assigned for these calls.
Meeting agendas also provide the pass codes and the call-in numbers:
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200906/msg00062.html>
The action items (log-in required):
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/oic/members/action_items.php
1.1 ROLL CALL AND QUORUM CHECK
The roll call confirmed presence of a quorum with 6 of 9 Voting Members in attendance (5 required to satisfy >50% quorum requirement).
MEMBERS IN ATTENDANCE
* Bart Hanssens, Fedict (Chair)
Jeremy Allison, Google
* Mingfei Jia, IBM
* Robert Weir, IBM
* Dennis Hamilton, Individual (secretary)
* Stephen Peront, Microsoft
* Alan Clark, Novell
Andrew Rist, Oracle
+ Daniel Rentz, Sun Microsystems
[* = Voting Member at start of meeting
+ = becoming Voting Member at conclusion of meeting]
MEMBERS ABSENT
Charles Schulz, Ars Aperta
Xiaohong Dong, Beijing Redflag Chinese 2000 Software
- Peter Junge, Beijing Redflag Chinese 2000 Software
Alex Wang, Beijing Sursen International
* Donald Harbison, IBM
Pierre Ducroquet, Individual
Andreas Guelzow, Individual
Thorsten Zachmann, Individual
Doug Mahugh, Microsoft
Eric Patterson, Microsoft
Tom Rabon, Red Hat
Mathias Bauer, Sun Microsystems
- Michael Brauer, Sun Microsystems
Bernd Eilers, Sun Microsystems
Svante Schubert, Sun Microsystems
Louis Suarez-Potts, Sun Microsystems
Jerry Smith, US Department of Defense
[* = Voting Member at start of meeting
- = Voting Member becoming non-voting Member at end of meeting]
1.2 ACCEPTANCE OF JUNE 3 MEETING MINUTES (approved without comment)
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200906/msg00047.html>
1.3 OVERVIEW OF DISCUSSION NOTES OF JUNE 17 CALL
There was no meeting, for lack of a quorum:
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200906/msg00046.html>
Those on the June 17 call held a Meeting of the Whole for discussion only. There are discussion notes at
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200906/msg00054.html>
1.4 ACCEPTANCE OF TODAY'S AGENDA (accepted with one addition, item 1.5 here)
1.5 LIAISON REPORTS
Rob Weir reported that he is the ODF TC liaison to the OIC TC.
2. STATUS OF ACTION ITEMS
#0001 OpenDocument Fellowship and Intel permission to use tests. We are still waiting to hear back from Intel. Rob Weir will ping them.
#0015 Template Scenario: Dennis said he will post something on this before the next call, now that #0016 is completed.
#0016 Experiment with Specification Analysis on the Wiki. The initial experiment is concluded. Dennis posted a summary of his analysis at
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic/200906/msg00044.html>. There is a longer discussion on the wiki at
<http://wiki.oasis-open.org/oic/SpecAnalysis/Discussion>. This action item is closed.
#0023 Outline for Test Case Submissions. This item is closed. Further discussion will happen in the context of the procedure we are developing.
#0026 Test Scenarios - How to Submit Material. Stephen will amend what Bart has. Dennis asked about differentiation of test scenarios versus application scenarios, thinking that the second are more like use cases.]
#0027 Application Scenarios. Still work in progress.
#0028 Virtual Interop Plugfest with OASIS. No report. We briefly discussed whether we need it or not, with no conclusion.
#0029 OOoCon2009 planning of an ODF/interop track or day is still in progress. The Call for Papers is not baked yet.
3. STATE OF INTEROPERABILITY
3.1 Comments Received on the OIC Comment List
<http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/oic-comment/200906/maillist.html>.
We discussed the use of the ISO terminology definition of interoperability and although the language is a little abstract, it is applicable to what we intend by interoperability here. Whether there are specific usage with regard to the specification of standards is not applicable to us and is a matter for OASIS and ISO JTC1 to determine.
We discussed different interoperability situations, with the thinking that the sweet spot involves collaboration via heterogeneous clients.
3.2 More thinking for the report
Dennis suggested that the plugfest working definition on layers/degrees of interoperability would be useful for us.
Rob will update the report to reflect some of the experience of the plugfest, availability of OfficeShots, etc.
4. APPLICATION SCENARIOS
4.1 Feedback from ODF Plugtest Wiki <http://plugtest.opendocsociety.org>
A number of topics from the plugfest were reported:
- default values were discussed along with the degree to which some values might have implementation-/locale-determined variations and those might be desired by the creator of the document; level of flexibility is not subject to much flexibility of creator control, in current specs.
- discussion of charts and cell ranges for chart data. There are multiple ways of specifying the cell range. Different implementations did it differently and were not tolerant of the other way.
- Bart is going to make a list of issues that came up that are relevant to the ODF standard, and Rob can take them to the ODF TC.
- Within the OIC TC, we need to get the application scenario documents approved or in use and we should make contributions to interop if we can write some really good application scenarios.
- Mingfei observed about the occurrence of simple and of complex scenarios, maybe needing to be founded on providing conformance cases first and then simple scenarios. Complex cases will be needed but we should work on simple ones to get going. Rob made an analogy with unit testing versus integrated testing and which tests have the greatest yield. The atomic level is quite expensive and the yield is relatively low, whereas application-level ones seem to be quite efficient in finding bugs. This may change over time after shallow bugs are found. Rob raised the question whether anyone has found anything with higher yield than what is proposed as application testing at the moment.
- Bart will update both of his documents, the one on assessment method and the one on scenario testing. We suspect the highest yield will be with more than one technique.
4.2 Application Scenario Testing
<http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=33144> was touched on in the context of the discussion coming out of the plugfest report.
4.3 Application Scenario Documents
< http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/document.php?document_id=33193> was also touched on only in the context of the 4.1 discussion expansion.
5. ROUND TABLE
Not done.
6. FUTURE MEETING PLANNING
The next call is July 15.
We ended the call at 14:35Z. There were some call quality problems at various times in the call.
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