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Subject: RE: Foreign elements and attributes
Hi Rick, I take it that your suggestion is to redefine extended documents to only recognize foreign attributes (and foreign attribute values?). Foreign-element tolerance and rules for dealing with unsupported/unknown foreign elements (including the special process-content attribute) would no longer be included in the ODF specification. I find that to be an interesting simplification, especially with regard to the ease with which foreign attributes can be ignored. There is an appealing tidiness to this case. This does not deal with the upward compatibility from ODF 1.1 that is promised for ODF 1.2 according to a statement I just came across, and I have a few reservations about its adequacy, as opposed to its appeal. The following remarks are all speculative, because we don't know whether anyone will stub their toe on these or not. - Dennis DISCLAIMER: This message provides my personal observations as a participant in the ODF TC and an interested party in the development of open standards for electronic documents and their processing. Any similarity to an official position of the ODF TC or of OASIS is purely coincidental. Were there such an official position, there'd be provision of a link to the official minutes or other approved document where an official position is expressed. Dennis E. Hamilton ------------------ NuovoDoc: Design for Document System Interoperability mailto:Dennis.Hamilton@acm.org | gsm:+1-206.779.9430 http://NuovoDoc.com http://ODMA.info/dev/ http://nfoWorks.org ANALYSIS ======== 1. We still have a problem with foreign attribute values on existing attributes. When such an attribute has no default value (the defined fall-back) and the attribute is required, the document would be unacceptable. I don't think your proposal addresses this case anyhow, but I do notice that language being introduced for it has this hole. I also note that those places, such as table:formula, where all of the values are foreign in ODF 1.1 [and presumably still permitted in ODF 1.2 (extended) documents], the fallback from only one something to only nothing is pretty stark. 2. One problem with the use of attributes only is that there can only be one occurrence of an attribute of the same name per element. There is no provision for multiplicity, repetition, etc. 3. One way to deal with situations like (2) is to use the ODF counterparts of <div> and <span> or (hack, cough) the ODF bookmark provisions that allow hierarchy to be transcended in the manner exploited by the RDF Metadata feature. These are, unfortunately, narrowly-defined and constrained for ODF in such a way that they do not provide a general solution. This is also an awkward solution where the introduction of an element structure would simply do the job. 4. I said this is all speculative, because we don't know whose situation would be thwarted by the constriction. That is what motivated me to support the dual levels, one that is upward compatible from 1.1 and one that provides a level of Ivory Snow ODF that some parties wish to be able to require for procurement and regulatory purposes. I'd rather not mess with upward compatibility until there has been adequate notice accompanied by provision of clearly-adequate alternative provisions. [PS: "Ivory snowness" is a reference to long-past soap-opera advertising of Ivory brand products as "99 and 44/100 percent pure." No, I don't know what sort of earmark the remaining 56/100 % was either and I don't know how reassured we had any right to feel.] -----Original Message----- From: Rick Jelliffe [mailto:rjelliffe@allette.com.au] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00055.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00056.html http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00057.html Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 21:26 To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: Re: [office-comment] Foreign elements and attributes May I suggest that there is an alternative to the current draft that would satisfy more stakeholders and be less work? It is to ban foreign elements, but allow foreign attributes, with only a single conformance class. This seems to me to meet the following objectives: [ ... ]
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