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Subject: RE: office-comment Frames / Information Loss (ODF all versions)
I notice that "supports best" is also a problematic determination. There is something that I notice in all of the statements in the ODF specification that admonish for preservation. 1. The problem is that there is no distinction between preservation of untouched material versus situations where (as in the case at hand) touching the one rendered would prospectively invalidate the others and the processor might not be able to determine whether that is the case. 2. Also, in the case of unknown/unsupported material, when *anything* is touched pretty much anywhere, it is not clear whether the unknown/unsupported material has been invalidated or at least left inconsistent with the changed material. It might *not* be the conservative and safe thing to preserve material that is unsupported/unknown when a derivative ODF document is being produced. (It might also be valuable to design material that depends on other material being unchanged to incorporate provisions by which a processor can reliably detect that a dependency invariant may have been broken. That takes a cooperative arrangement of some sort that fails properly when an unaware party touches the material.) Also, there are concerns among some implementers about the dangers that unsupported/unknown components represent with regard to prospects for covert channels, unintended disclosure, and security/privacy exploits. The creation of a digital signature that encompasses unsupported/unknown material is particularly problematic. I don't have a prescription for this. I do think that decontextualized injunctions to preserve or not preserve are useless. - Dennis This message is my personal observation and any similarity to an official position of the ODF TC or of OASIS is purely coincidental. Were there such an official position, there'd be provision of a link to the official minutes or other approved document where the official position is expressed. Dennis E. Hamilton ------------------ NuovoDoc: Design for Document System Interoperability mailto:Dennis.Hamilton@acm.org | gsm:+1-206.779.9430 http://NuovoDoc.com http://ODMA.info/dev/ http://nfoWorks.org -----Original Message----- From: Alex Brown [mailto:alexb@griffinbrown.co.uk] http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/200903/msg00089.html Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 06:13 To: office-comment@lists.oasis-open.org Subject: [office-comment] Frames / Information Loss (ODF all versions) Dear all, In 9.4 we learn about frames. We are told first "[a]n application may choose the representation that it supports best". Then we are told: ----b The order of content elements dictates the document author's preference for rendering, with the first child element being the most preferred. That means that applications should render the first child element that it supports. ----e Are not these two statements in conflict? Later we are told: ----b Application [sic] may preserve the content elements they don't render. ----e So, an application only "may" preserve unused content. Why is an application free to discard information? In the case a variant implementation is used to support accessibility (say it is a transcript of a video), is it really okay for that information to be dumped? In general, how can an application safely dump anything -- since it may in fact be vital to the document in some way ... - Alex. -- This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the OASIS Open Document Format for Office Applications (OpenDocument) TC. In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required before posting. Subscribe: office-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org Unsubscribe: office-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org List help: office-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org List archive: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/office-comment/ Feedback License: http://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf List Guidelines: http://www.oasis-open.org/maillists/guidelines.php Committee: http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=office
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