RE: [plcs] Updated slides on AP239ed2

["Rob Bodington" <rob.bodington@eurostep.com>]

Hi
Please could we move this discussion to the AP239 e2 exploder:
ap239ed2@eurostep.com

Please contact me if you wish to be included in the exploder.


Regards
Rob
-------------------------------------------   
Rob Bodington
Eurostep Limited
Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com http://www.share-a-space.com
Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com
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-----Original Message-----
From: Peter Bergström 
Sent: 09 March 2009 08:19
To: David Price; plcs@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: Tim Turner; Rob Bodington
Subject: RE: [plcs] Updated slides on AP239ed2

Dave, 

From where did you get the definition of a breakdown structure as being an "alternative structure of an original 'thing'"? I cannot recollect that as being the definition used in AP239.

I also think your comment about interop between AP233 and AP239 (so if you need behaviour, use 233) deserves some afterthought: If that is true, whu do we need to include things into AP239 based only on the fact that it is part of AP233 and we want to be interoperable? Wouldn't that argument work for not including System as well?


Peter





-----Original Message-----
From: David Price [mailto:david.price@eurostep.com] 
Sent: den 6 mars 2009 10:41
To: plcs@lists.oasis-open.org
Cc: Tim Turner; Rob Bodington
Subject: Re: [plcs] Updated slides on AP239ed2

The rationale for System in the modules themselves is based on the Systems 
Engineering discipline and its distinction between Systems and other 
configuration controlled items (i.e. a System or System of Systems is not a 
Part). Here's a link to the biggest industry group in the area and their 
definition of systems engineering:

http://www.incose.org/practice/fellowsconsensus.aspx

There are related ISO standards for SE processes:

http://www.iso.org/iso/catalogue_detail?csnumber=27166

Using a breakdown for these requirements didn't make sense because a breakdown 
is an alternative structure of an original "thing" (i.e. a change controlled 
view), but what SEs are building is the original "thing", not a view of it.

Cheers,
David

P.S. WRT behavior not in AP239, I think one reason is that asset maintenance 
people don't repair or maintain the behaviour of a system so don't need that 
info or get it through a tech doc or similar. Not sure about that though. 
Either way, if you have a usage scenario where behaviour information needs to 
be exchanged, just use AP233 in conjunction with AP239 as the aim is to 
support 100 percent interop between the two.


On Thursday 05 March 2009 20:51:02 Tim Turner wrote:
> Rob,
>
> I appreciate the update to the slides. Since the telecon was cancelled
> today I would like to raise two points;
>
> 1. Could I suggest that you add a slide to inform about the things that
> have been discussed and rejected (or that remain as low priority & hence
> unlikely to be included in AP239ed2).
>
> In particular I think it worth stating that explicit subtypes for
> various concepts (e.g. Failure, Failure mode, Failure mode effect,
> Fault, Symptom, Behaviour etc.). This gives visibility that they have at
> least been discussed with the relevant (current) conclusions as
> presented.
>
> 2. On another note, I (& maybe others) could still do with a better
> understanding of the reasoning behind the need for System and its
> relationship to System_breakdown. In my mind, its inclusion would be
> another reason to also include behaviour such that the behaviour of the
> system can be specified (under certain stimulus).
>
> Regards,
> Tim
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> 	From: Rob Bodington [mailto:rob.bodington@eurostep.com]
> 	Sent: 03 March 2009 11:59
> 	To: plcs@lists.oasis-open.org
> 	Subject: [plcs] Updated slides on AP239ed2
>
>
>
> 	Hi
>
> 	Here are an updated set of slides reporting on the status of
> AP239 edition2 that were presented at the last PLCS TC telecom.
>
> 	These replace ISO 10303-239ed2_v005.ppt that was sent by Chris
>
> 	*	From: "Kreiler, Christopher G"
> <Chris.Kreiler@ManTech.com>
> 	*	To: <plcs@lists.oasis-open.org>
> 	*	Date: Wed, 18 Feb 2009 10:40:47 -0500
>
> 	Regards
> 	Rob
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> --------
> 	Rob Bodington
> 	Eurostep Limited
> 	Web Page: http://www.eurostep.com <http://www.eurostep.com/>
> http://www.share-a-space.com <http://www.share-a-space.com/>
> 	Email: Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com
> <mailto:Rob.Bodington@eurostep.com>
> 	Phone: +44 (0)1452 810 960
> 	Mobile: +44 (0)7796 176 401
> 	Skype: rbodington
>
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