OASIS Mailing List ArchivesView the OASIS mailing list archive below
or browse/search using MarkMail.

 


Help: OASIS Mailing Lists Help | MarkMail Help

regrep message

[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]


Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA


Goran,

I would point people to my presentation yesterday at CDC/PHIN on
registry driven exchanges using CPA and CPAid management.

 http://drrw.net/backup/NIH/Registry-Exchange-CDC-PHIN-May-2005.pdf

I make a distinction here - since the ebXML message envelope used
in tandem with CPAid's of sender and receiver provide a comprehensive
and flexible exchange management set.  The CPA itself contains the
transport level profiles.  These profiles can be configured to support
limited interchanges via WSDL.  The advantage of this is that the
CPA itself can replace most all the pieces that WSDL is missing that
are in ebMS - thta are needed for a basic B2B type exchange -
so you can support such enhanced WSDL processing using
CPA as the superset.  The ebMS looks up the CPA from the
registry and uses that supplemental information to augment the
interchange control.   Clearly ebMS V3 is also
headed to providing direct support for WSDL too.

It's not perfect - but it provides something workable.  What
I have not tried yet - but I'm postulating it can work - is to
enhance my VisualScript CPA generator model - so that
in addition you can generate a WSDL (with multi-parts) -
to support this approach.   There maybe one or two
extras you need to capture to fully enable this - but having
done a WSDL model in VS already - I think this technique
of outputting a basic WSDL should work.   This is fact would
have many advantages - since you could customize the
WSDL and default to sensible config' that someone just
creating a barebones WSDL may not include.

If anyone is interested in those models - I can upload them
to my resource site.

Thanks, DW

p.s. I recorded the audio from the 40 min presentation - so
I'm hoping Ken North will post that to his resource
site once we've ahd a chance to convert it to the
streaming format, etc.

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Goran Zugic" <gzugic@ebxmlsoft.com>
To: <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>
Cc: "Dan Pattyn" <danpattyn@austin.rr.com>; <john@crossconnections.ws>;
"'David Webber '" <david@drrw.info>; <vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com>;
"'Dale Castle'" <dcastle@ebxmlsoft.com>; "'ebSOA OASIS TC'"
<ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; <richard.manning@sun.com>; <discuss@jxta.org>;
<george.w.brown@intel.com>; <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>;
<regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 12:20 AM
Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA


> Carl,
>
> CPID is an XML document which content is based on ebSOA Information Model
> (IM). It contains ebSOA IM entities with attributes and relationships
needed
> to represent and support run-time context and content of collaborative
> processes. We define two types of collaborative processes: processes with
> context and content persistence and processes with context persistence
only.
> Both context and content information is stored in a standard registry via
> ebSOA IM.
>
> ebSOA IM has three parts: Federation IM (FIM), Collaborative Process IM
> (CPIM) and Collaborative Process Flow IM (CPFIM). FIM is more common
> WS/ebXML collaboration business artifacts based model that defines any
> business document meta-data and content creation and management while CPIM
> and CPFIM include more collaboration semantics related entities. All of
them
> can be presented in a standard based registry language (i.e., OASIS ebXML
> Registry, OASIS UDDI Registry, etc.). As a proof of concept, we tested
CPIDs
> written in OASIS ebXML Registry (RIM and RS) with ebXMLsoft Registry using
> ExtrinsicObjects, Slots, Associations, etc. and everything worked fine.
With
> a single ebXML RS SubmitObjectsRequest you can submit an entire
> collaboration ebSOA IM to the ebXML Registry and create all ebSOA IM
> registry objects needed for the collaboration. We would also like to
> approach UDDI TC and see if we can do the same proof of concept with them.
>
> Since we support standard convergence and since ebSOA IM also includes all
> common collaboration entities (i.e., events, actions, activities,
decisions,
> clusters, sequences, roles, rules, metrics, etc.)  we hope that it will be
> endorsed as a standard ebSOA Collaboration Semantics Information Model by
> OASIS (together with our ebSOA Collaboration Semantics) and be added to
the
> standard based registry languages (ebXML Registry, UDDI, etc.). In that
> case, with ebSOA IM you can write a CPID for any collaboration scenario in
a
> single format that will be executed the same way in any standard based
> registry that supports ebSOA IM. Today, you have one ebSOA IM CPID format
> for ebXML Registry and another one for UDDI Registry. They are still
> standard formats but written in two different languages.
>
> Today's most common collaboration standards, OASIS ebXML BP and OASIS
WSBPEL
> do not formally provide information models. Our ebSOA IM can also be used
to
> support both of them because the ebSOA IM is a kind of super-set of
> collaboration entities used in both of them. We might have some
terminology
> differences which can be resolved. If any of the entities used by these
two
> standards are missing we are willing to add them as well. This way we can
> have a universal collaboration semantics IM that can be used for external
> collaborations, internal collaborations and (collaboration) semantic
> integration. ebSOA IM with CPID is a good example for standard
convergence.
>
> Regards,
> Goran
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Carl Mattocks" <carlmattocks@checkmi.com>
> To: "Goran Zugic" <gzugic@ebxmlsoft.com>
> Cc: "Dan Pattyn" <danpattyn@austin.rr.com>; <john@crossconnections.ws>;
> "'David Webber '" <david@drrw.info>; <vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com>;
> "'Dale Castle'" <dcastle@ebxmlsoft.com>; "'ebSOA OASIS TC'"
> <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; <richard.manning@sun.com>;
<discuss@jxta.org>;
> <george.w.brown@intel.com>; <bcm@lists.oasis-open.org>;
> <regrep@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 10:15 AM
> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA
>
>
> > Goran :
> >
> > Please share with us whatever info you have on the Collaborative Process
> > Information Document (CPID).
> >
> > I am copying the BCM & ebXMLRegistry folks since much of what you stated
> > has been positively discussed in the TC meetings.
> >
> > carl
> >
> > <quote who="Goran Zugic">
> >> Dan,
> >>
> >> Thanks for putting this discussion back on the standard track.
> >>
> >> I do not think that we have done a satisfactory job in regards to
> >> presenting
> >> our solution to David, John and the individuals from OASIS BCM TC. I
want
> >> to
> >> assure you that our FERA-based ebSOA architectural solution includes
all
> >> aspects of the SOA architecture on the level of the specification
details
> >> that can be used for enterprise SOA implementations:
> >>
> >> - Collaborations (internal and external),
> >> - Security,
> >> - Messaging,
> >> - Protocol profiles and agreements,
> >> - Universal business documents formatting,
> >> - Registry and repository-based management of meta-data and business
> >> artifacts,
> >> - Business rules,
> >> - Agent frameworks
> >>
> >> Using the Federated Enterprise Reference Architecture (FERA) reference
> >> model
> >> we produced the set of ebSOA specifications needed to provide full
> >> enterprise level SOA support from both a functional as well as
> >> implementational point of view. We think that the missing factor in the
> >> ebSOA architecture is the semantic integration which brings all of the
> >> above
> >> aspects together. We have fully defined the FERA-based ebSOA
> >> collaboration
> >> semantics that resolves this problem. Our ebSOA collaboration semantics
> >> is
> >> also based on the formally defined information model that can be stored
> >> in
> >> a
> >> standard registry like the OASIS ebXML Registry or OASIS UDDI Registry
> >> and
> >> used to take care of both context and content related to any business
> >> process. This is supported by a single open standard-based XML document
> >> we
> >> call the Collaborative Process Information Document (CPID) that can be
> >> generated from a business process definition in a visual modeling tool.
> >> Submitting the content of this document to a standard registry will
> >> generate
> >> the entire collaboration process information model that together with
> >> FERA-based  ebSOA collaboration semantics already implemented via
> >> FERA-based
> >> ebSOA managers (remember all FERA-based managers in ebSOA
architecture -
> >> Federation Manager, Agent Interface Manager, Event Manager, Activity
> >> Manager, etc.) enables full open standard-based support for the
> >> enterprise
> >> business collaboration processes of any complexity.
> >>
> >> Another important aspect of our proposed solution is standard
> >> convergence.
> >> We very much believe that standard convergence is the future and in our
> >> architectural solution we reference the best "standard brands"
available
> >> today. It does not matter which standard body they are coming from.
What
> >> matters is the standard's value in the ebSOA functional offerings. For
> >> example, these are some of the standard components we reference in the
> >> FERA-based ebSOA: OASIS ebXML BP, OASIS WSBPEL, OASIS UBL, OASIS ebXML
> >> Registry, OASIS UDDI, W3C SOAP, OASIS ebXML Messaging, WS-Security,
OASIS
> >> XACML, OASIS SAML, WS-Reliability and others.
> >>
> >> We also want to mention that two important components of the FERA-based
> >> ebSOA architecture, Agent Framework and Business Rules, are not
supported
> >> by
> >> any standard today. OMG has two pending Requests For Proposals related
to
> >> business rules: Business Semantics of Business Rules and Production
Rule
> >> Representation. Our definition of a standard is a specification
produced
> >> and
> >> approved in a large recognizable standard body like OASIS, W3C, OMG,
> >> IEEE,
> >> etc.. Some specification components are coming from groups and programs
> >> like
> >> Java Community Process (JCP). While some of them achieved great success
> >> over
> >> last few years, we believe that ebSOA specification should reference
> >> standard components first. However, when the standard is not provided
we
> >> recommend using other groups' specifications, but on the implementation
> >> level only. We believe that if some industry groups have valued
> >> specification offerings they should be encouraged to submit their spec
> >> proposals to standard bodies and speed up the process of developing
very
> >> much needed standards that we do not have today.
> >>
> >> I hope that this clarifies key aspects related to our FERA-based ebSOA
> >> proposal and our vision about enterprise SOA.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Goran
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Dan Pattyn" <danpattyn@austin.rr.com>
> >> To: <john@crossconnections.ws>; "'David Webber (XML)'"
<david@drrw.info>
> >> Cc: <vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com>; "'Goran Zugic'"
> >> <gzugic@ebxmlsoft.com>; "'Dale Castle'" <dcastle@ebxmlsoft.com>;
"'ebSOA
> >> OASIS TC'" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; <richard.manning@sun.com>;
> >> <discuss@jxta.org>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:08 AM
> >> Subject: RE: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA
> >>
> >>
> >>>I have been looking at JXTA as a middleware peering discovery
management
> >>> mechanism for Asterisk the open source IP PBX. JXTA is available from
> >>> Verizon and I have heard that Telenor and some other northern European
> >>> telcos have incorporated a security model on top of JXTA.  Anybody
know
> >>> of
> >>> these links.
> >>>
> >>> I don't know why we got off on the discussion of the implementation
> >>> language. We should just be sending a declarative logic description of
> >>> the
> >>> service contract(policy and contract-- BPSS 3.0?) (XML? Or OWL?) to
the
> >>> agent ecosystem.  I think this is where the FERA CPIM comes into play.
> >>>
> >>> Verizon JXTA service for $14.95 a month.
> >>> http://newscenter.verizon.com/kit/iobi/network.vtml
> >>> http://newscenter.verizon.com/kit/iobi/profeatures.vtml
> >>> http://newscenter.verizon.com/kit/iobi/enterprise.vtml
> >>>
> >>> You can provide the same services and epr functionality on Asterisk IP
> >>> PBX
> >>> offering enterprise level email with collaboration and federation
> >>> support
> >>> over VOIP with team specific collaboration presence, discovery, and
role
> >>> based availability.  Eventually they will figure out how to add
services
> >>> on
> >>> top of this generic infrastructure service.  Maybe they will look to
> >>> ebSOA????
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Dan
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: john c hardin [mailto:johnchardin@comcast.net]
> >>> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:46 PM
> >>> To: David Webber (XML)
> >>> Cc: john@crossconnections.ws; Dan Pattyn;
> >>> vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com;
> >>> Goran Zugic; Dale Castle; ebSOA OASIS TC; richard.manning@sun.com;
> >>> discuss@jxta.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA
> >>>
> >>> Understood David, thank you. I was suggesting that we use applicable
> >>> universal
> >>> "concepts" from the JXTA projects, not the actual implementation.
> >>> Obviously,
> >>>
> >>> JXTA could be implemented as an agent framework if the implementer
chose
> >>> to
> >>> do so.
> >>>
> >>> I just wanted to make sure that we get a well-rounded picture of agent
> >>> concepts.
> >>>
> >>> David Webber (XML) wrote:
> >>>> John,
> >>>>
> >>>> The caveat I have is simple - the design of ebSOA should be
> >>>> implementation
> >>>> language
> >>>> neutral.
> >>>>
> >>>> That is the whole point behind the BCM linking and switching - its
> >>>> based
> >>> on
> >>>> classical
> >>>> declarative logic processing - and can be expressed as XML
structures -
> >>> that
> >>>> can
> >>>> then be read and processed by any agent engine.
> >>>>
> >>>> There are literally 100 different agent engines out there - all with
> >>>> their
> >>>> own
> >>>> proprietary syntan and API - (even if they are written in Java - or
> >>>> maybe
> >>>> especially
> >>>> if they are written in Java!).
> >>>>
> >>>> What the world does not have is a common method of integrating *all*
> >>> these.
> >>>> That I believe is where traditionally OASIS can look to make a
> >>>> significant
> >>>> contribution...
> >>>>
> >>>> DW
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----
> >>>> From: "john c hardin" <johnchardin@comcast.net>
> >>>> To: <john@crossconnections.ws>
> >>>> Cc: "Dan Pattyn" <danpattyn@austin.rr.com>; "David RR Webber"
> >>>> <david@drrw.info>; <vasco.drecun@cpd-associates.com>; "Goran Zugic"
> >>>> <gzugic@ebxmlsoft.com>; "Dale Castle" <dcastle@ebxmlsoft.com>; "ebSOA
> >>> OASIS
> >>>> TC" <ebsoa@lists.oasis-open.org>; <richard.manning@sun.com>;
> >>>> <discuss@jxta.org>
> >>>> Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 2:48 PM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [ebsoa] events and agents as defined in an ebSOA
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>Richard Manning from Sun Microsystems presented on JXTA at the 2004
> >>>>
> >>>> Symposium.
> >>>>
> >>>>>Slides are found at:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/events/symposium/slides/manning.pdf
> >>>>>
> >>>>>john c hardin wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>I would like to start a conversation on the list re: the agent
> >>>>>>architecture, as proposed in the Federated Enterprise Reference
> >>>>>>Architecture approach.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Thanks to Goran, Vasco and the ebXMLsoft team for creating the
> >>>>>>presentation attached, and to David Webber and Dan Pattyn for
pointing
> >>>>>>me to the BCM material.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>I think that there are several inputs that we can include to round
out
> >>>>>>the ideas of a non-intrusive, event-driven agent model. Opinions are
> >>>>>>requested from the group on these, and preferences for how to
specify
> >>>>>>the agent mechanisms using a combination of the approaches here:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>- The Agent Framework is described in the attached BCM / FERA
> >>>>>>presentation. There is a lot of good material here, however, we need
> >>>>>> to
> >>>>>>make sure that we are re-using stable OASIS specs where possible. I
> >>>>>>would like to map the specifications mentioned in the presentation
to
> >>>>>>the existing specs.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>- The BCM Linking and Switching as a mechanism to bind to the agent
> >>>>>>framework
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>- Possibly including JXTA concepts, where possible, as they describe
> >>>>>>peering between components and applications.
> >>>>>>http://www.jxta.org/JXTAFAQ.html
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>- Complex Event Processing, using the concepts outlined by David
> >>>>>>Luckham: From http://www.complexevents.com/
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>Complex Event Processing (CEP) is an emerging technology for
building
> >>>>>>and managing information systems including:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>    * Business Activity Monitoring
> >>>>>>    * Business Process Management
> >>>>>>    * Enterprise Application Integration
> >>>>>>    * Event-Driven Architectures
> >>>>>>    * Application Servers and Middleware
> >>>>>>    * Network and Systems Security
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>--
> >>>>>~~~~~~~~~
> >>>>>john c hardin
> >>>>>Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee
> >>>>>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
> >>>>>313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number
> >>>>>mailto:john@crossconnections.ws
> >>>>>
> >>>>>"The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image
of
> >>>>> a
> >>>>
> >>>> global
> >>>>
> >>>>>village."
> >>>>>
> >>>>>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> ~~~~~~~~~
> >>> john c hardin
> >>> Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee
> >>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
> >>> 313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number
> >>> mailto:john@crossconnections.ws
> >>>
> >>> "The new electronic interdependence recreates the world in the image
of
> >>> a
> >>> global
> >>> village."
> >>>
> >>>     Marshall McLuhan, "Gutenberg Galaxy", 1962
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > -- 
> > Carl Mattocks
> > co-Chair OASIS (ISO/TS 15000) ebXMLRegistry Semantic Content SC
> > co-Chair OASIS Business Centric Methodology TC
> > CEO CHECKMi
> > v/f (usa) 908 322 8715
> > www.CHECKMi.com
> > Semantically Smart Compendiums
> > [AOL] IM CarlCHECKMi
> >
> >
>
>



[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]