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Subject: RE: [rights-requirements] HIPAA, HL7 and general questions


Among the many and several things you forget to mention, Bob, are the literally years of requirements gathering that have already gone into the engineering that has produced the artifact we have in hand, XrML2. With that perspective I believe that in no way shape or form are we lacking for breadth in the space of design requirements for the task at hand. Indeed, if you’ve understood the architecture you’ll realize that the XrML2 core in particular is all about fundamental expressivity of authorization policy structure, not particular authorization polices. In analogy, it is all about the structure of English grammar, not particular English sentences. It is whether the grammar is expressive enough is our fundamental question, not whether we have an inventory of all the English sentences one would ever want to write. You don’t have to examine every possible sentence in order to come to an informed opinion that the grammar will in fact be able to form sentences that one might want to say in the future. In the same way, we don’t have to examine every possible user of the rights language (though of course more is better) in order to come to an informed opinion that the rights language is expressive enough to address their needs.

 

You seem to repeatedly advocate and infinite and never-ending cycle of inquiry, consultation, and coordination with a continually growing litany of outside organizations, even waiting, delaying, and dallying for those who by your own admission rank us of a such low priority to not even respond to us for months. Engineering is never done with perfect information. In all engineering exercises, there comes a point where one understands that shipping is a feature too, and resolves that one has the best handle one can on the problem under the circumstances, and decides that necessary refinements will be made later. Given your stance here and on related issues, if I didn’t know better, I’d suspect that you actually didn’t want this group to ever manage to produce a successful result.

 

Whether we will be voted up or down by the broader membership will depend on the quality of the product and its actual manifest utility, not the quantity of the requirements gathered in its production; the two are not the same thing. More requirements are better than fewer, but we will never manage to personally meet all of the customers of this technology.

 

                Bob

 

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Glushko [mailto:glushko@SIMS.Berkeley.EDU]
Sent:
Thursday, August 22, 2002 9:05 AM
To: Robin Cover; Rights-Requirements SC
Subject: Re: [rights-requirements] HIPAA, HL7 and general questions

 

This is too important a comment not to respond in support of Robin Cover.


At
08:03 PM 8/21/2002 -0500, Robin Cover wrote:


------------------------------------------------------------------
"An assignment of initial representatives was made. The following
final list was agreed upon by the Requirements SC:

1. MPEG ("Motion Picture Expert Group") - BG


I know this is what the minutes of the meeting say, but I don't think that "final" really meant final.  Granted, Hari probably wrote these minutes in a state of "irrational exuberance" because he's got the job of moving things along, but throughout the summer he and the rest of the committee have demonstrated a willingness to solicit requirements from other organizations as we identified them as potential stakeholders and we've accepted requirements "out of the blue" from organizations who identified us without any help.  I don't think there has been any sinister attempt to exclude anyone from participating. 

The problem is simply that it takes time to engage the appropriate organizations and for their internal schedules to reach a point where they can pay attention to us.  I've tried all summer to get UBL engaged with us but have failed simply because they've spent most of the last two months in getting a significant new release out themselves.  UBL has obvious and important overlaps with the scope of our work.  But you can't expect them to drop their own work because we are impatient.

So  I completely share Robin's concerns that this  TC is overly fixated with schedule at the expense of getting complete requirements, and that our failure to adequately engage the HL7/HIPAA constituency is a serious one.  There is no way that the TC can claim to be creating a comprehensive rights expression language without their input.   I also agree that the withdrawal of the XBRL camp puts us in a weaker position when we try to convince the OASIS membership to approve our work as a standard. 

Now if we were developing some narrow vertical specification -- like so many of the OASIS TCs -- it wouldn't matter so much. But most of us believe that the core expression language is supposed to be "the mother of all rights expression languages" that, when extended, will be usable by all the "domain" languages.  We can't plausibly claim that if we don't get requirements from healthcare and financial services, two of the most important domains.  Telling them "we'll get to you in future versions of the spec" isn't credible.  We'll get voted down by the broader membership.


-------------------------------------------------------------------

Liora seemed to suggest that if this domain were to be considered as to
its rights-language requirements, one would need to go through HIPAA
specs and the HL7 RIM (Reference Information Model) to make sure the
underlying requirements in the data models were accounted for in the
RLTC requirements specification.  So one might ask: can we do this job
at this point, or would it actually make more sense for Liora to do this
job once there's a draft requirements document to inspect?


Liora is a member of OASIS because of the reciprocity agreement it has with HL7. I recommend that we invite her to join our TC, at least for a few weeks, so that she lead this evaluation and insertion of the HL7/HIPAA requirements into our set.   We simply don't have anyone in the requirements team now with the expertise to do this. 

This would ensure that we'd be credible when we published our requirements for external review. We should do the same with XBRL -- I know that Zac Coffin has withdrawn from the TC, so we need to beg him to come back or to find someone to take his place.

bob



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