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Subject: Rough minutes 2008-01-22 are attached


Title: SCA-Assy - 2008-01-22

OASIS Logo

- DRAFT -

SCA-Assembly TC Face to face

22 JAN 2008

Attendees

Present
Charlton Barreto, (Adobe Systems)
fred carter, (AmberPoint)
Mark Combellack, (Avaya, Inc.)
Jim Marino, (BEA Systems, Inc.)
Michael Rowley, (BEA Systems, Inc.)
Reza Shafii, (BEA Systems, Inc.)
Jacques Durand, (Fujitsu Limited*)
Tom Rutt, (Fujitsu Limited*)
Eisaku Nishiyama, (Hitachi, Ltd.)
Bryan Aupperle, (IBM)
Michael Beisiegel, (IBM)
David Booz, (IBM)
Graham Charters, (IBM)
Jean-Sebastien Delfino, (IBM)
Mike Edwards, (IBM)
Dieter Koenig, (IBM)
Simon Nash, (IBM)
Peter Furniss, (Iris Financial Solutions Ltd.)
Martin Chapman, (Oracle Corporation)
Khanderao Kand, (Oracle Corporation)
Anish Karmarkar, (Oracle Corporation)
Rich Levinson, (Oracle Corporation)
Ashok Malhotra, (Oracle Corporation)
Vladislav Bezrukov, (SAP AG*)
Sanjay Patil, (SAP AG*)
Peter Peshev, (SAP AG*)
Sabin Ielceanu, (TIBCO Software Inc.)
Scott Vorthmann, (TIBCO Software Inc.)
Chair
Chapman and Edwards
Scribe
Bob Freund
Agenda:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/26891/SCAAssemblyTCF2FAgenda-Jan2008-v2.ppt

Contents

Topics
[1]  Opening
[2]  Agenda review
[3]  Conformance Statements and Test Suites
[4]  Jacques Durand on WS-I Testing and Conformance
[5]  Are there optional conformance statements?
[6]  Test Suites
[7]  Restructuring of the Specification
[8]  Dynamic Aspects ...
[9]  Issue Assembly-3
[10]  Assembly-5
[11]  Assembly-8
[12]  Assembly-9
[13]  Assembly-10
[14]  Assembly-12 previously closed in 2007-11-06-3
[15]  Assembly-13 Difficulty using source attribute to pull values into complex types
[16]  Assembly-14 Conflicting Specification of Values for Many-Valued StringProperties
[17]  Assembly-15 Unclear how Composites are discovered when Referenced
[18]  Assembly-9
[19]  Assembly-16 Component URI is not well described
[20]  Assembly-17 Need to define Namespace handling for included Composites
[21]  Assembly-18 XSD definitions of Component Service and Component Referencehave unintended features
[22]  Assembly-19 Schema definition for Component, Component Reference @autowireattribute is incorrect
[23]  Assembly-20 Conflict Between SCA XSD and Specification Body about the handling of Multi-Valued Properties
[24]  Assembly-21 Binding name attribute not a QName
[25]  Assembly-22 WSDL extension should not be required for conversations
[26]  Tomorrow's Agenda The Trailer
Table of Resolutions
Table of Action Items

Action Items

Old:
2008-01-15-1: id=2008-01-15-1 status=done
New:
2008-01-22-1: Testing sub-committee organise themselves, select a chair, and report to the TC
2008-01-22-2: Test team to get on with it
2008-01-22-3: Edwards to write up one or more issues related to this topic.
2008-01-22-4: owner=Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-8 according to his inclinations
2008-01-22-5: Edwards to refine proposal to Assembly-10 and cross-reference to issue 6
2008-01-22-6: Karmarkar to coordinate with Alex Yu and produce a new proposal
2008-01-22-7: Beisiegel to raise an issue to fix those examples lacking required prefixes
2008-01-22-8: Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-16
2008-01-22-9: Karmarkar to review and refine proposal to Assembly-17
2008-01-22-10: Edwards to prepare a proposal using xsd to resolve Assembly-18
2008-01-22-11: Booz to generate a proposal for the resolution to Assembly-22

Resolutions


Minutes

<Bob>
location: Oracle, Redwood Shores
<fred>
please let us know when the phone connection is made as the conference system just booted me off for lack of interest...
<Bob>
folks are working to get the stuff together
<fred>
that's what I figured...
<fred>
Thanx. Expected to be over there, but things came up as they do...
<fred>
perhaps tomorrow...
<Bob>
Fred, bring a spare chair for yourself
<fred>
will do! Thanx for the warning

Scribe: Bob Freund

Opening

<fred>
fred on the phone
 
Roll - quorate 22 of 40

Agenda review

 
Jacques Durand suggested that we look at what WS-I has done related to the BP profile and automated testing
 
This will be inserted after morning break in today's meeting
 
Agenda agreed with above amendment
<Mike Edwards>
Resolution: m:Edwards s:Rutt minutes of 2008-01-15 approved w/o
Action: id=2008-01-15-1 status=done

Conformance Statements and Test Suites

Chapman:
we must go through the spec to use normative language
 
... the rule is very broad and we need to inform ourselves with more specific guidance.
Edwards:
We ought to find a way to connect each conformance test with a conformance statement contained and readily identifiable within the spec
 
... perhaps a book/chapter/verse style of notation may be convenient.
<fred>
so the first one at a football game carrying a sign saying SCA 3:16 wins a prize...
 
precisely
 
perhaps SCA-Assembly Book of intentions 3:16
<fred>
Sounds very moral. FSM would be proud
<Dieter Koenig>
Rutt:
Notes that many definitions are essential and normative but may not include the words MUST or MAY
 
... likes the idea of marking ot numbering the normative parts
 
/ot/of
 
Chapman displays examples of notations used by BPEL
<Bryan Aupperle>
Please tell us what section you are looking at.
 
Section 3 of BPEL
<Tom Rutt>
Some normative requirements may only be tested by a customer using platform specific tools, which are not appropriate for standardized testing (i.e., no standard artifacts or test insertion points that would map to "layers" or "internal interfaces" found in all implementations of the specification)
Chapman:
Hierarchy 1) Is it testable 2) Can we define a test 3) do we want to define a test 4) how do we define a test
<Dieter Koenig>
Actually the correct link to the WS-BPEL 2.0 standard is http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/OS/wsbpel-v2.0-OS.html (the link above was an earlier draft) - Appendix B has the summary of all static analysis rules.
 
proposal motion - The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements.
 
proposal motion - The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements. Editors shall endeavor to number or otherwise identify these labeled sections so that they would remain steady across versions of the specification.
 
amendment moved by edwards, seconded by karmarker
Rowley:
I think that the amendment is premature
Resolution: amendment passes 15 to 5 with 2 absentions
<fred>
You can add another +1 -- I pressed the wrong button to drop mute & killed connection
Resolution: m:Rowley s:Khand The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements. Editors shall endeavor to number or otherwise identify these labeled sections so that they would remain steady across versions of the specification. w/o
 
meeting reconvenes after break
 
suggest cafe riace
 
or cafe pro bono

Jacques Durand on WS-I Testing and Conformance

<anish>
here is a link to an earlier version of BP 2.0:
<anish>
<anish>
here is the right link:
<anish>
 
ooking at section 3.1.5
<charltonb>
http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scaasssemblytc in case anyone wants to share docs, etc.
<anish>
note that the link i pasted above is an earlier version of BP 2.0 that was made public, what Jacques has displayed in the f2f room is a later version (which is member-only and therefore does not have a public URL)
<charltonb>
i'll be on IRC for a bit, had to ring off the telcon for a bit
<charltonb>
if folks want to share docs the link is http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scaassemblytc/
<charltonb>
also https://admin.adobe.acrobat.com/_a295153/scaassemblytc
<charltonb>
Anyone can present
 
Jacques presents the approach taken by WS-I
 
folks comment that the in-line presentation of tests is ugly and an impediment to readability.
 
Jacques presents an example of the WS-I test log which Edwards described as an artifact container.
 
Edwards points out that this type of test might not be appropriate for this TC since there is no pile of xml available on the wire for inspection.
 
Discussion concerned the possibility of generating standard instrumentation to support testability.
Action: Testing sub-committee organise themselves, select a chair, and report to the TC

Are there optional conformance statements?

Edwards:
Are there optional things and how are they expressed? For example, are there conformance profiles?
 
Discussion followed concerning interoperability and permissibility of optional features as it relates to runtime implementations.
 
Scribe notes that this sounds a lot like be strict in your generation and permissive in your consumption...

Test Suites

Action: Test team to get on with it
 
Meeting is called to order

Restructuring of the Specification

 
Editors review the re-structured document
Rowley:
Is it possible to make the proposed version a CD?
 
... so there is no base line CD at this time...
Karmarkar:
Do we want to add samples before we call it a CD?
Rowley:
I don't think we should hold off until it is done
Edwards:
But it is not useful with chunks of normative stuff missing. We are still downgrade from the OSOA version.
Resolution: m:Freund s:Edwards Editor's proposal for document re-structuring is accepted w/o

Dynamic Aspects ...

Edwards:
the dynamic aspects of the domain means that things can come and go, but there is de minimis text describing such
 
Edwards steps up to the flip chart, armed with markers, and offers to collect requirements
<Mike Edwards>
Need good terminology
Requirement to be able to change aspects of existing deployed elements
Need to describe the process of:
Adding elements to the domain
Removing elements from the domain
Replacing an element with a different version
 
Need mechanics to allow reporting on the status of deployment changes (eg error reporting)
Bob supposes that for each contribution there exists a composite such that the integral of the composite from t=0 to t=infinity approaches zero as the size of the contribution approaches zero
 
Discussion follows about the degree to which dynamic change should be discussed, allowed, or the mechanism specified.
Action: Edwards to write up one or more issues related to this topic.
Rowley:
Address what happens to autowire with newly deployed components and what happens to newly deployed wires.
 
bullet-How much to make normative vs allowing flexibility
<Martin C>
Dinner:
<Martin C>
Mistral Restaurant
370 Bridge Parkway (across from Oracle)
Redwood Shores, CA. 94065
Phone: 650 802 9222
Directions/Website: www.mistraldining.com

Issue Assembly-3

Assembly-5

<Simon Nash>
NCName ::= (Letter | '_') (NCNameChar)*
Resolution: m:freund s:Scott motion to defer the motion to close with no action w/o

Assembly-8

 
This one of Henning's issues and he is on leave for six months
Action: owner=Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-8 according to his inclinations

Assembly-9

<Mike Edwards>
Resolution: m:karmarkar satil accept proposal to resolve Assembly-9 at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200801/msg00033.html assuming that references in wd02.pdf are used w/o

Assembly-10

Action: Edwards to refine proposal to Assembly-10 and cross-reference to issue 6

Assembly-12 previously closed in 2007-11-06-3

Assembly-13 Difficulty using source attribute to pull values into complex types

Resolution: m:Chapman s:Malhotra Close with no action w/o

Assembly-14 Conflicting Specification of Values for Many-Valued StringProperties

Action: Karmarkar to coordinate with Alex Yu and produce a new proposal

Assembly-15 Unclear how Composites are discovered when Referenced

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Beisiegel Close Assembly-15 as a duplicate of Assembly-8 w/o

Assembly-9

Action: Beisiegel to raise an issue to fix those examples lacking required prefixes

Assembly-16 Component URI is not well described

Action: Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-16

Assembly-17 Need to define Namespace handling for included Composites

Action: Karmarkar to review and refine proposal to Assembly-17

Assembly-18 XSD definitions of Component Service and Component Referencehave unintended features

Action: Edwards to prepare a proposal using xsd to resolve Assembly-18

Assembly-19 Schema definition for Component, Component Reference @autowireattribute is incorrect

<anish>
change:
<anish>
<attribute name="autowire" type="boolean" use="optional" default="false"/>
<anish>
to:
<anish>
<attribute name="autowire" type="boolean" use="optional"/>
Resolution: m:Rowley s:Karmarkar resolve assembly-19 by removing the default on the autowire xml schema definition w/o

Assembly-20 Conflict Between SCA XSD and Specification Body about the handling of Multi-Valued Properties

Resolution: m:Karmarkar s:Rowley Close Assembly-20 as a duplicate of Assembly-14 w/o

Assembly-21 Binding name attribute not a QName

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Edwards Change pseudo schema for the name attribute of binding to be an NCname w/o

Assembly-22 WSDL extension should not be required for conversations

Action: Booz to generate a proposal for the resolution to Assembly-22

Tomorrow's Agenda The Trailer

 
meeting in recess until tomorrow.

[End of Minutes]
Formatted on 2008-01-22 at 17:35:58 GMT-8


Minutes formatted by Schreiber, a collection of XSLT stylesheets by Bob Freund modeled after David Booth's scribe

Schreiber diagnostics output

[Delete this section before publishing the minutes]

statistics: Schreiber found 190 input lines

edits: Schreiber found the following text-edit commands:

edits: Line 48: Bob: s/break/morning break

edits: Line 75: Bob: s/specificatoin/specification

edits: Line 76: Bob: s/pamendment/amendment

edits: Line 85: Bob: s/Testing/WS-I Testing

edits: Line 130: Bob: s/to r/to allow r

edits: Line 156: Bob: s/10/10 and cross-reference to issue 6

edits: Line 159: Bob: s/13/13 Difficulty using source attribute to pull values into complex types

edits: Line 162: Bob: s/11-06/11-06-3

edits: Line 168: Bob: s/Rowley/Beisiegel

edits: Line 173: Bob: s/-7/-17

edits: Line 184: Bob: s/solution/resolution:

edits: Line 185: anish: s/Karmarker/Karmarkar/g

edits: Line 189: Bob: s/autowirexml/autowire xml

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system: Transformer: SAXON SA 8.9

[End of Schreiber diagnostic output]



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