Corrected Draft minutes with full attendance of 2008-01-22 are attached

Subject: Corrected Draft minutes with full attendance of 2008-01-22 are attached

Minutes

Oracle, Redwood Shores California

Scribe: Bob Freund

Opening

Roll - quorate 22 of 40

Agenda review

Jacques Durand suggested that we look at what WS-I has done related to the BP profile and automated testing

This will be inserted after morning break in today's meeting

Agenda agreed with above amendment

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/26850/SCA%20Assembly%20minutes%202008-01-15.html

Resolution: m:Edwards s:Rutt minutes of 2008-01-15 approved w/o

Action: id=2008-01-15-1 status=done

Conformance Statements and Test Suites

Chapman:

we must go through the spec to use normative language

... the rule is very broad and we need to inform ourselves with more specific guidance.

Edwards:

We ought to find a way to connect each conformance test with a conformance statement contained and readily identifiable within the spec

... perhaps a book/chapter/verse style of notation may be convenient.

http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/CS01/wsbpel-v2.0-CS01.html#_Toc151784268

Rutt:

Notes that many definitions are essential and normative but may not include the words MUST or MAY

... likes the idea of marking of numbering the normative parts

Chapman displays examples of notations used by BPEL

Please tell us what section you are looking at.

Section 3 of BPEL

Some normative requirements may only be tested by a customer using platform specific tools, which are not appropriate for standardized testing (i.e., no standard artifacts or test insertion points that would map to "layers" or "internal interfaces" found in all implementations of the specification)

Chapman:

Hierarchy 1) Is it testable 2) Can we define a test 3) do we want to define a test 4) how do we define a test

Actually the correct link to the WS-BPEL 2.0 standard is http://docs.oasis-open.org/wsbpel/2.0/OS/wsbpel-v2.0-OS.html (the link above was an earlier draft) - Appendix B has the summary of all static analysis rules.

proposal motion - The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements.

proposal motion - The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements. Editors shall endeavor to number or otherwise identify these labeled sections so that they would remain steady across versions of the specification.

amendment moved by Edwards, seconded by karmarker

Rowley:

I think that the amendment is premature

Resolution: amendment passes 15 to 5 with 2 absentions

<fred>

You can add another +1 -- I pressed the wrong button to drop mute & killed connection

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Kand The specification editors look to the WS-BPEL specification as a style to implement in this specification concerning labeling of normative text and conformance statements. Editors shall endeavor to number or otherwise identify these labeled sections so that they would remain steady across versions of the specification. w/o

meeting reconvenes after break

Jacques Durand on WS-I Testing and Conformance

<anish>

here is a link to an earlier version of BP 2.0:

<anish>

http://www.ws-i.org/Profiles/BasicProfile-2_0(WGD).html

looking at section 3.1.5

http://my.adobe.acrobat.com/scaasssemblytc in case anyone wants to share docs, etc.

<anish>

note that the link i pasted above is an earlier version of BP 2.0 that was made public, what Jacques has displayed in the f2f room is a later version (which is member-only and therefore does not have a public URL)

Jacques presents the approach to testing taken by WS-I

folks comment that the in-line presentation of tests is ugly and an impediment to readability.

Jacques presents an example of the WS-I test log which Edwards described as an artifact container.

Edwards points out that this type of test might not be appropriate for this TC since there is no pile of xml available on the wire for inspection.

Discussion concerned the possibility of generating standard instrumentation to support testability.

Action: Testing sub-committee organise themselves, select a chair, and report to the TC

Are there optional conformance statements?

Edwards:

Are there optional things and how are they expressed? For example, are there conformance profiles?

Discussion followed concerning interoperability and permissibility of optional features as it relates to runtime implementations.

Scribe notes that this sounds a lot like be strict in your generation and permissive in your consumption...

Test Suites

Action: Test team to get on with it

Meeting is called to order

Restructuring of the Specification

Editors review the re-structured document

Rowley:

Is it possible to make the proposed version a CD?

... so there is no base line CD at this time...

Karmarkar:

Do we want to add samples before we call it a CD?

Rowley:

I don't think we should hold off until it is done

Edwards:

But it is not useful with chunks of normative stuff missing. We are still downgrade from the OSOA version.

Resolution: m:Freund s:Edwards Editor's proposal for document re-structuring is accepted w/o

Dynamic Aspects ...

Edwards:

the dynamic aspects of the domain means that things can come and go, but there is de minimis text describing such

Edwards steps up to the flip chart, armed with markers, and offers to collect requirements

Need good terminology
Requirement to be able to change aspects of existing deployed elements
Need to describe the process of:
Adding elements to the domain
Removing elements from the domain
Replacing an element with a different version

Need mechanics to allow reporting on the status of deployment changes (eg error reporting)
Bob supposes that for each contribution there exists a composite such that the integral of the composite from t=0 to t=infinity approaches zero as the size of the contribution approaches zero

Discussion follows about the degree to which dynamic change should be discussed, allowed, or the mechanism specified.

Action: Edwards to write up one or more issues related to this topic.

Rowley:

Address what happens to autowire with newly deployed components and what happens to newly deployed wires.

bullet-How much to make normative vs allowing flexibility

Issue Assembly-3

Assembly-5

NCName ::= (Letter | '_') (NCNameChar)*

Resolution: m:Freund s:Scott motion to defer the motion to close with no action w/o

Assembly-8

This one of Henning's issues and he is on leave for six months

Action: Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-8 according to his inclinations

Assembly-9

http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200801/msg00033.html

Resolution: m:Karmarkar s:Patil accept proposal to resolve Assembly-9 at http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-assembly/200801/msg00033.html assuming that references in wd02.pdf are used w/o

Assembly-10

Action: Edwards to refine proposal to Assembly-10 and cross-reference to issue 6

Assembly-12 previously closed in 2007-11-06-3

Assembly-13 Difficulty using source attribute to pull values into complex types

Resolution: m:Chapman s:Malhotra Close with no action w/o

Assembly-14 Conflicting Specification of Values for Many-Valued StringProperties

Action: Karmarkar to coordinate with Alex Yu and produce a new proposal

Assembly-15 Unclear how Composites are discovered when Referenced

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Beisiegel Close Assembly-15 as a duplicate of Assembly-8 w/o

Assembly-9

Action: Beisiegel to raise an issue to fix those examples lacking required prefixes

Assembly-16 Component URI is not well described

Action: Rowley to propose a resolution to Assembly-16

Assembly-17 Need to define Namespace handling for included Composites

Action: Karmarkar to review and refine proposal to Assembly-17

Assembly-18 XSD definitions of Component Service and Component Referencehave unintended features

Action: Edwards to prepare a proposal using xsd to resolve Assembly-18

Assembly-19 Schema definition for Component, Component Reference @autowireattribute is incorrect

<anish>

change:

<anish>

<anish>

to:

<anish>

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Karmarkar resolve assembly-19 by removing the default on the autowire xml schema definition w/o

Assembly-20 Conflict Between SCA XSD and Specification Body about the handling of Multi-Valued Properties

Resolution: m:Karmarkar s:Rowley Close Assembly-20 as a duplicate of Assembly-14 w/o

Assembly-21 Binding name attribute not a QName

Resolution: m:Rowley s:Edwards Change pseudo schema for the name attribute of binding to be an NCname w/o

Assembly-22 WSDL extension should not be required for conversations

Action: Booz to generate a proposal for the resolution to Assembly-22

Review of tomorrow's agenda

meeting in recess until tomorrow.

Scribe: Bob Freund

Continuation of meeting of 2008-01-23

Callbacks and conversational Interfaces because the BPEL people are causing trouble

Edwards:

Do we have it right or is it too complex?

... can it be implemented using common communications methods?

Discussion continued with members expressing hope for interoperability but with a sense that total interoperability would be an unrealistic goal and limited interoperability might still be successful

Other concerns are that involvement by application layers make conversational interface interoperability more difficult unless all of the functionality were delegated to those application layers. Dividing the responsibility is rife with hazards.

Edwards:

Is it confusing when callbacks & conversational interfaces are mixed together? Should they be mutually exclusive?

Some background for Assembly-33: see http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/document.php?document_id=26913

http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/download.php/26913/Assembly-33%20-%20Long-Running%20Request-Response%20Operations.ppt

Koenig presents his slides illustrating some of the issues.

Action: Koenig to produce a proposal to address Assembly-33 based in part on his presentation and the discussion in the room

Edwards:

Is i posible to implement callbacks and/or conversational interfaces uning common communications methods?

... solution-- provide exemplary implementations for each of them in Web services, JMS

Action: Edwards to take this topic to the bindings tcs for further consideration

Assembly-4 Dynamic Change of Callbacks

Peshev:

describes his proposal and rationale thereof

Motion: m:Rowley s:Nash Delete the last paragraph of WS-02 8.2 numbered ca lines 2241-2244

Amendment: m:Edwards s:Rowley Replace the word implement with the word provides on line line Nr. 2237

Amendment: withdrawn

Amendment: m:Rowley s:Edwards In line 2237 replace the word implement with "provide an implementation of"

Amendment: passes 8 to 4 with 8 abstentions

Amendment: m:Nash s:Rutt replace provide an implementation of with provide

Amendment: fails 1 to 6 with 11 abstentions

Amendment: m:karmarker s:Booz in addtion to the motion previously stated, additionally In line 2237 delete the phrase "component implementation"

pleasures of wordsmithing by committee

Amendment: passes 11 to 1 with 2 abstentions

Motion: restated as amended -- Delete the last paragraph of WS-02 8.2 numbered ca lines 2241-2244 and in addition line 2237 replace the word implement with "provide an implementation of" and in addition In line 2237 delete the phrase "component implementation"

Amendment: m:Rowley s:Edwards resolve Assembly-4 by...

Amendment: passes w/o

Resolution: Resolve Assembly-4 with motion above as amended w/o

Issue 1 solicitation of concerns

Break for lunch until 13:15 Pacific

Scribe: Anish Karmarkar

Restarting from the break

Issue 1

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/Assembly-1

Motion: m:Rowley s:Vorthmann we disallow bindings from references unless the binding specifies a URL or some other way of specifying the endpoint

If a reference does not have a binding, then the binding used can be any of the bindings specified by the service provider, or other means, as long as the intents required by the reference and the service are all respected.

Amendment: m:Sanjay s:Rowley If a reference does not have a binding, then the binding used can be any of the bindings specified by the service provider, or binding.sca, as long as the intents required by the reference and the service are all respected.

Amendment: fails 7-7-5

Amendment: m:Nash s:Edwards If a reference does not have a binding, then the binding used can be any of the bindings specified by the service provider, as long as the intents required by the reference and the service are all respected.

Amendment: passes 11-2-3

Amendment: m:Karmarkar s:Nash remove the text "we disallow bindings from references unless the binding specifies a URL or some other way of specifying the endpoint" from the amended motion

if this amendment passes the amended motion would be:

"If a reference does not have a binding, then the binding used can be any of the bindings specified by the service provider, as long as the intents required by the reference and the service are all respected."

amendment passes 12-2-3

the current amended motion is:

Motion: If a reference does not have a binding, then the binding used can be any of the bindings specified by the service provider, as long as the intents required by the reference and the service are all respected.

Resolution: motion passes as amended 14-3-2

F2F attendance record is at: http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly/event.php?event_id=17173&day=1200999600

please ensure your name has been recorded!

Motion: m: Chapman s: Rowley resolve issue 1.A with the previous resolution/motion and issue 1.B will be considered duplicate of 26

Resolution: motion passes 11-2

issue 31

Motion: m:Rowley s: Rutt resolution to issue 1 already resolves issue 31. So resolve issue 31 by pointing to resolution of issue 1

Motion: m: Rowley s: Rutt to defer the current motion on the table

Motion: to defer fails 2-5-1

Motion: m:Nash s:Rutt calls the question

Motion: calling the question fails 4-4

Resolution: motion fails 6-6-1

issue 24

issue 24 defered till anish finishes his AI

issue 27

Motion: m:Nash s: Beisiegel delete lines 2537-2541 in WD-02.pdf and resolve issue 27

Resolution: delete lines 2537-2541 in WD-02.pdf and resolve issue 24 w/o

Upcoming milestone:

1) Fold in resolved issues

2) spec restructuring

{1 & 2 : due in 2 weeks}

3) rfc 2119 reword

4) spec sample

{CD after milestone (2)}

suggestion to do milestone (3) for a section and then get approval from the TC. And move on to the rest of the document and tackle it in manageable chunks

{milestone 3: 3 weeks from today}

5) conformance section

6) remaining issues

7) testing

7.a) plan for testing in 2 weeks

testing subcommittee: tentative call date/time -- monday 8am or wednesday 8am pacific

Motion: m: Karmarkar s: Edwards motion to adjourn

Resolution: to adjourn w/o

adjourned

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final validation: Chair not specified, default chair was assumed

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sca-assembly message

- DRAFT -

SCA-Assembly TC Face to FaceOracle, Redwood Shores California

22 JAN 2008 - 23 JAN 2008

Attendees

Contents

Action Items

Resolutions

Minutes

Opening

Agenda review

Conformance Statements and Test Suites

Jacques Durand on WS-I Testing and Conformance

Are there optional conformance statements?

Test Suites

Restructuring of the Specification

Dynamic Aspects ...

Issue Assembly-3

Assembly-5

Assembly-8

Assembly-9

Assembly-10

Assembly-12 previously closed in 2007-11-06-3

Assembly-13 Difficulty using source attribute to pull values into complex types

Assembly-14 Conflicting Specification of Values for Many-Valued StringProperties

Assembly-15 Unclear how Composites are discovered when Referenced

Assembly-9

Assembly-16 Component URI is not well described

Assembly-17 Need to define Namespace handling for included Composites

Assembly-18 XSD definitions of Component Service and Component Referencehave unintended features

Assembly-19 Schema definition for Component, Component Reference @autowireattribute is incorrect

Assembly-20 Conflict Between SCA XSD and Specification Body about the handling of Multi-Valued Properties

Assembly-21 Binding name attribute not a QName

Assembly-22 WSDL extension should not be required for conversations

Review of tomorrow's agenda

Callbacks and conversational Interfaces because the BPEL people are causing trouble

Assembly-4 Dynamic Change of Callbacks

Issue 1 solicitation of concerns

Issue 1

issue 31

issue 24

issue 27

Schreiber diagnostics output

SCA-Assembly TC Face to Face
Oracle, Redwood Shores California