SCA Bindings TC - raw chat log for 2010-02-04

[Eric Johnson <eric@tibco.com>]

The raw chat log follows

-Eric.

Simon Holdsworth: Audio conference: 

Meeting Number: * 913929 * (press * before and after the digits) 

Phone numbers: 

Austria = Vienna 026822056419 
Belgium = Brussels 022901709 
China = Beijing 01052237296 
Czech Republic = Prague 239014054 
Denmark = Copenhagen 32714982 
France = Lyon 0426840196 Marseille 0488915310 Paris 0170994364 
France TollFree = 0800944795 
Germany = Berlin 030726167296 Dusseldorf 021154073845 Frankfurt 069710445413 Hamburg 040809020620 Munich 089244432767 Stuttgart 0711490813212 
Germany TollFree = 08006646304 
India = Mumbai 02261501417 
Ireland = Dublin 014367612 
Italy = Milan 0230413007 Rome 06452108288 Turin 01121792100 
Japan = Tokyo 0357675037 
Netherlands = Amsterdam 0207965349 
Poland Toll-free = 008001213648 
Portugal Toll Free = 800782079 
Russia = Moscow 84999222481 
Russia Toll Free = 81080022074011 
South Africa Toll-free = 0800982617 
Spain = Barcelona 934923140 Madrid 917889793 
Sweden = Stockholm 0850520404 
Switzerland = Geneva 0225927186 
UAE Toll-free = 8000440387 
UK = Birmingham 01212604587 London 02071542988 Manchester 01612500379 
UK Toll Free = 08003581667 
USA = 19543344789 
USA & Canada Toll Free = 18665289390

Simon Holdsworth: Agenda

Simon Holdsworth: 1. Opening 

Introductions 
Roll call 

Plamen Pavlov LOA request including meetings of 11th, 18th, 25th Feb 

Scribe assignment 

Top of the scribe list: 
Laurent Domenech TIBCO Software Inc. 
Plamen Pavlov SAP AG 
Tom Rutt Fujitsu Limited 
Bryan Aupperle IBM 
Anish Karmarkar Oracle Corporation 
Ashok Malhotra Oracle Corporation 
Eric Johnson TIBCO Software Inc. 
Martin Chapman Oracle Corporation 
David Booz IBM 

Agenda bashing 

2. Approval of the minutes from 21st January: 

http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/36036/SCA%20Bindings%20minutes%202010-01-21.doc 

3. Actions 

20090211-4 [General] Write up HTTP binding use cases 
20090709-2 [Editors] Update the schema appendix title to include 1.1 
20091015-1 [Anish Karmarkar] Raise new issues found during TA creation for obvious bugs in WS binding spec 
20091015-3 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #1 - review and determine appropriate update to copyright dates (all specs) 
20091015-4 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #2 - clarify the text describing the JCA binding (JCA only) 
20091015-5 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #3 - revise text to reword or remove as appropriate (JCA only) 
20091015-6 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #5 - caption all examples, figures, snippets, etc., scrub text of use of former, latter, above, below, following. Replace with precise references (all specs) 
20091015-7 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #6 - clean up the text with regards to this item (JCA only) 
20091015-8 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #8 - look at whether the non-normative references section is relevant still, or needs to be populated (all specs) 
20091015-9 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #9 - clean up naming conventions section (all specs) 
20091015-10 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #10 - look for cleanup to clarify optionality (all specs) 
20091015-11 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #11 - do something to clarify the different uses for the @uri attribute (JCA only) 
20091015-12 [Editors] Re: BINDINGS-99 point #16 - mark Annexes as normative or not as appropriate (all specs) 

4. New Issues 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-111 
binding.jms uses JMS URI scheme even though it is not a valid IETF internet draft 

5. Test Assertions/Test cases 

Current status: 

Overall: Awaiting current set of issues to be resolved and applied, at which point editors will need to update TA docs and then we can review them with the aim of getting to CD. 

Web Service binding TA document: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34571/sca-wsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd02.odt 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/34572/sca-wsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd02.pdf 
Status: Draft completed; needs review 

JMS TA document: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/36157/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd04.doc 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/36158/sca-jmsbinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd04.pdf 
Status: Latest draft needs review. 

JCA TA document: 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/36155/sca-jcabinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd04.doc 
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/36156/sca-jcabinding-1.1-test-assertions-wd04.pdf 
Comment: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200909/msg00011.html 
Status: reviewed and issues raised. 

6. Open issue discussion 

Public review comment issues: 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-87 
Web Service callback standard is best done by the appropriate Web Services working groups 
Raiser: PR comment, owner: Unassigned 
Priority: 1 (PR comment needing disposition) 
Status: latest email: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200911/msg00001.html 

Other open issues: 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-95 
BJM30032 and BJM30035 conflict 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200911/msg00010.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-105 
BJM30025 has no normative keyword 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200911/msg00010.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-106 
BJM30027 has no normative keyword 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200911/msg00010.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-104 
Expected @create attribute value not clear in some normative statements 
Raiser: Simon Holdsworth, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200912/msg00019.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-101 
Opaque references - need for a terminology list? 
Raiser: PR comment, owner: Unassigned 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Proposed resolution in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200912/msg00013.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-102 
Need to specify all valid enumerations for @create attribute and others 
Raiser: PR comment, owner: Unassigned 
Priority: Unassigned 
Status: Draft proposal in email http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/201001/msg00002.html 

http://www.osoa.org/jira/browse/BINDINGS-60 
JMS Default wire format insufficient to cover real world usage 
Raiser: Mike Edwards, owner: Simon Holdsworth 
Priority: 3 (deferred) 
Status: outline proposal in issue 

7. AOB

Eric Johnson: Scribe: Eric

Eric Johnson: Simon: Meeting is quorate (63%)

Eric Johnson: Topic: Review agenda

Eric Johnson: (No comments on agenda)

Eric Johnson: Topic: Approval of minutes

Eric Johnson: No comments on minutes - no objections to approving minutes.  Minutes approves.

Eric Johnson: s/approves/approved/

Eric Johnson: Action 20090709-2 done for jms & jca - need to update action to reflect need to update only the remaining ws binding.

Eric Johnson: (No other comments on action items.)

Eric Johnson: Topic: New issues

Eric Johnson: Eric: Walking through the background on BINDINGS-111

Eric Johnson: Eric moves to open issue, Dave B. 2nds.

Eric Johnson: No objections to open bindings-111 - motion is passed, issue is opened.

Eric Johnson: Action item: Ashok to follow up with Jeff

Eric Johnson: (Note, Martin & Plamen joined call, raising the % attendance)

Eric Johnson: Topic: Open issues

Eric Johnson: Subtopic - BINDINGS-95

Eric Johnson: Simon H: Bindings 105 very similar, perhaps should deal with it together.

Eric Johnson: Simon H: Likewise, BINDINGS-106 is again similar.

Eric Johnson: Simon talking us through proposed resolution for all three issues (95, 105, 106): http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200911/msg00010.html

Eric Johnson: Simon: Proposal explicitly extracts the actual relationships to a new portion of the document.

Eric Johnson: ... going through analysis of current normative statements, identifying gaps, contradictions, and redundancies.

Eric Johnson: Dave: You've convinced me, and I'm ready to go with the alternative proposal.

Eric Johnson: (Simon: Going through 2nd proposal.)

Eric Johnson: (Simon: Going through 2nd proposal.)

Eric Johnson: Eric: Proposed section 3.2, item #4) text "default value" is just a little vague.

Eric Johnson: Simon: We do specify the defaults elsewhere in the spec.

Eric Johnson: Eric: Yes, but wording like "default values specified elsewhere in the spec." would eliminate ambiguity.

Eric Johnson: Simon: or "the default values specified as indicated in the headers section." or some such wording.

Eric Johnson: Simon: With new proposal, we end up with three normative statements.

Eric Johnson: ... One small wrinkle.  The IETF URI proposal doesn't define a message selector.  One interpretation is that anything recognized by the spec must be a user property.  Options - since this isn't specified, we should take these possibilities out.

Eric Johnson: Eric: The SOAP/JMS spec does define an additional property "targetService" that appears in the URI.  So we could follow a similar pattern here.

Eric Johnson: Simon: Not really aware of a need to set user properties in the URI.  And the blanket notion that everything in the URI gets turned into a user property causes me a little concern.

Eric Johnson: ... Think we should remove the rule about deriving user properties from the URI, but we should define a specific property that we use for the message selector ("selector" seems like a good option.)

Eric Johnson: ... So we should revise proposal

Simon Holdsworth: Three modifications to the proposal

Simon Holdsworth: 1) clarify that the defaults for headers are as specified for the binding.jms/headers element

Simon Holdsworth: 2) remove priority number 1 for user properties i.e. not supported in the @uri attribute

Simon Holdsworth: 3) clarify that selector is taken from the @uri "selector" parameter

Simon Holdsworth: New text: 1) the value for the message selector specified in the @uri attribute value's "selector" parameter;

Eric Johnson: Action: Simon to produce a revision of the spec including all the changes related to the discussion we've just had.

Eric Johnson: Subtopic - BINDINGS-104

Eric Johnson: Simon: Issues with normative statements that came up while doing test cases.

Eric Johnson: (Simon walking us through email with proposal: http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/sca-bindings/200912/msg00019.html)

Eric Johnson: Simon: General pattern is to add the value of the @create attribute to the relevant normative statements, and collapse 015 & 016 due to overlap.

Eric Johnson: Dave moves to resolve BINDINGS-104 with the proposal in email

Eric Johnson: Eric 2nds

Eric Johnson: No objections to unanimous consent.  Issue is resolved.

Eric Johnson: Simon: We're near the end of our time.  Any other business?  Any updates to roll?

Eric Johnson: Simon: Meeting adjourned.  Next meeting same time next week.