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Subject: Re: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2
Christine, Excellent. Either one works for me, but latter sounds nicer to me. I'm fine to add this as a new requirement, while if it is agreed on, this maybe combined either with 2.13.2 or with 2.13.3, I think. -Keisuke Christine Draper wrote: > Would it be possible to reword to: > > The SDD specification must support defining constraints on the available > localized content, based on the locale of the host environment. > > or > > The SDD specification must support defining constraints on the localized > content that may be installed, based on the locale of the host environment. > > > Regards, > Christine > > Senior Technical Staff Member > IBM, 11501 Burnet Road, Mail Point 901-6B10 > Austin, TX 78758 > 1-512-838-3482 tl 678-3482 > Inactive hide details for "Danielson, Debra J" > <Debra.Danielson@ca.com>"Danielson, Debra J" <Debra.Danielson@ca.com> > > > *"Danielson, Debra J" <Debra.Danielson@ca.com>* > > 03/08/2006 05:06 PM > > > > To > > Christine Draper/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, <sdd@lists.oasis-open.org> > > cc > > > Subject > > RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > > The point here is to allow the author to prevent a combination which > will not work. > > Regards, > Debra > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Christine Draper [mailto:cdraper@us.ibm.com] * > Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2006 5:42 PM* > To:* sdd@lists.oasis-open.org* > Subject:* RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > Debra, > > By wider context, I meant aggregation but also local policy and context. > It would seem that a client would want the same default for all packages > installed on a machine - and would not want each vendor to choose > differently. If I put together an offering that integrates a database > and a web server, I wouldn't want one to default to English and the > other to German because that's what the underlying components decide - > and ideally I'd want to avoid requiring the aggregator to trawl through > all aggregated packages "overriding" their defaults. If the client is > actually based in Japan but have to install their servers in English > because that's all they support, I want the user to be able to say > "please install in Japanese", not have some vendor specify "always > install English on English servers". > > Further, if there are actually different user sets on the same machine, > or accessing the application remotely - then the best choice may vary by > application, and will be dependent on the user sets, not on the > application (e.g. a company employs Polish administrators, Scottish help > desk staff, and German engineers.... they all use applications on one > server). > > Do you have examples of why a vendor needs to specify acceptable locale > substitutions, rather than leaving that decision as external? If we're > talking about which localization content to install (rather than the > text to localize messages during the install), I can imagine a scenario > where certain localization content won't work on servers in a different > locale. If this is the concern, the SDD would need to be able to say "do > not install localization content Y on a server with locale X". We might > word the requirement as being able to express constraints on the locale > of resources in the environment...?? > > Regards, > Christine > > > > Senior Technical Staff Member > IBM, 11501 Burnet Road, Mail Point 901-6B10 > Austin, TX 78758 > 1-512-838-3482 tl 678-3482 > Inactive hide details for "Danielson, Debra J" > <Debra.Danielson@ca.com>"Danielson, Debra J" <Debra.Danielson@ca.com> > > *"Danielson, Debra J" > <Debra.Danielson@ca.com>* > > 03/08/2006 02:00 PM > > > To > > Christine Draper/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, <sdd@lists.oasis-open.org> > cc > > Subject > > RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > > > Christine, > > This type of constraint needs to be included in the descriptor for a > specific component, so that the constraints can be accurately be > maintained during composition. This I presume is your “wider context”, > and I contend that the information about the acceptability of a > substitution for a specific locale may not be available to the > integrator if it is not part of the descriptor for the part. > > Regards, > Debra > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* Christine Draper [_mailto:cdraper@us.ibm.com_] * > Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2006 2:36 PM* > To:* sdd@lists.oasis-open.org* > Subject:* RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > John, > > Please do make sure this is a separate requirement, so we can consider > it separately. I am not comfortable with requiring the SDD to support > defining how to decide the locale to use for a given package. My concern > is similar to the concern I have with defining priorities for choices of > alternative topologies or configurations - that this is typically a > decision that needs to be made in a wider context, not a good thing for > the author of a specific SDD to impose. > > Regards, > Christine > > Senior Technical Staff Member > IBM, 11501 Burnet Road, Mail Point 901-6B10 > Austin, TX 78758 > 1-512-838-3482 tl 678-3482 > Inactive hide details for "Patton, John H" <John.Patton@ca.com>"Patton, > John H" <John.Patton@ca.com> > > *"Patton, > John > H" > <John.Patton@ca.com>* > > > 03/08/2006 > 01:07 > PM > > > To > > "Danielson, Debra J" <Debra.Danielson@ca.com> > cc > > <sdd@lists.oasis-open.org> > Subject > > RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > > > I've been working within CA a bit on 2.13.x and we have an additional > requirement we want to make sure is covered: > > 2.13.x The SDD specification must support defining localization > constraints based on the host environment and available localized text. > > The intent is to make sure the SDD can define constraints on how > localized content should be displayed when there is no localized content > for the host environment's locale. > > Thoughts? > > Also, I expect someone's going to need to compile all the 2.13.x > requirement recommendations that have been discussed in this thread, so > I'll do that before today's meeting. > > cheers, > > /john patton/* > > --** > c**a* > Senior Software Engineer > Office: 630 505-6150 > Cell: 847-224-9196_ > __john.patton@ca.com_ <mailto:john.patton@ca.com> > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * > From:* Julia McCarthy [_mailto:julia@us.ibm.com_] * > Sent:* Wednesday, March 08, 2006 9:52 AM* > To:* Patton, John H* > Cc:* Christine Draper; sdd@lists.oasis-open.org* > Subject:* RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > I vote for 2.13 as proposed. > > The SDD specification must support defining localization content for > multiple locales. > > For 2.13.1 I suggest a modificatoin: 2.13.1 The SDD specification must > support localized text within the SDD descriptor. > I'm not sure it is ok to refer to the SDD descriptor in a requirement, > but we do need to say something to distinguish this localized text from > localized text in the solution content. > > Julia McCarthy > Autonomic Computing Enablement > julia@us.ibm.com > Tie/Line 349/8156 > 877-261-0391 > > > Inactive hide details for "Patton, John H" <John.Patton@ca.com>"Patton, > John H" <John.Patton@ca.com> > > *"Patton, > John > H" > <John.Patton@ca.com>* > > > 03/08/2006 > 10:09 > AM > > > To > > Christine Draper/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, <sdd@lists.oasis-open.org> > cc > > Subject > > RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > > > inline... > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > * > From:* Christine Draper [_mailto:cdraper@us.ibm.com_] * > Sent:* Tuesday, March 07, 2006 7:18 PM* > To:* sdd@lists.oasis-open.org* > Subject:* RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > Another late entry... > > I may be oversimplifying here, but for both of these, do we really need > to say more than: > > The SDD specification must support defining localization content for > multiple locales. > [Patton, John H] I vote for this one as 2.13. :-) > > It should be a requirement on runtimes that they support installing > different locales than the default machine locale, or to choose a > suitable default if there is no localization content for the chosen > locale (according to policy, or user query, or best practice, or... > [Patton, John H] I totally agree. That's been my hang-up with 2.13.2. > > The other interpretation - which would make them follow-on requirements > to 2.13.1 - is that they relate to the text in the descriptor itself > which is localized. I'd then suggest 2.13.1 covers this, and what's left > is again a runtime (install GUI) requirment. > [Patton, John H] Ooooh, I like that. Maybe: > 2.13.1 The SDD specification must support containing localized text. > > Cheers, > > /john patton/ > > Regards, > Christine > > Senior Technical Staff Member > IBM, 11501 Burnet Road, Mail Point 901-6B10 > Austin, TX 78758 > 1-512-838-3482 tl 678-3482 > Inactive hide details for "Patton, John H" <John.Patton@ca.com>"Patton, > John H" <John.Patton@ca.com> > > *"Patton, > John > H" > <John.Patton@ca.com>* > > > 03/07/2006 > 02:08 > PM > > > To > > "Keisuke Fukui" <kfukui@labs.fujitsu.com> > cc > > "Robert Dickau" <rdickau@macrovision.com>, <sdd@lists.oasis-open.org> > Subject > > RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > > > Inline... > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Keisuke Fukui [_mailto:kfukui@labs.fujitsu.com_] > > Sent: Monday, March 06, 2006 11:54 PM > > To: Patton, John H > > Cc: Robert Dickau; sdd@lists.oasis-open.org > > Subject: Re: [sdd] 2.13.3 AND 2.13.2 > > > > Hi there, > > > > Opinion from a late comer: > > [John Patton] Howdy, late comer. :-) > > > > The rewrite for 2.13.3 from people sounds fine to me. > > The 2.13.2 seems to contain a different requirement: > > > > 2.13.2 The SDD specification must support the definition of > > the information in order to not preclude the Install Operator > > from viewing the localized content in a different locale from > > the target platform, or from installing InstallableUnits that > > are tied to a different locale. > > > > I agree that the first half phrasing sounds redundant with > > 2.13.3 (as Rob suggested) and propose to prune it to read: > > > > 2.13.2 The SDD specification must not preclude the Install > > Operator from viewing or installing the localized content in > > a different locale from the target platform or in a different > > locale from tied one. > > > [John Patton] I'm personally not a fan of requirements saying what > things must not do. If we start listing what the SDD specification > should not do, we will never finish it since that list can literally be > endless. And any way I rewrite this seems to relate directly to runtime > or tooling. I personally think this should be in the "best practices" > section, but I'm willing to defer on this since it will end up having no > direct bearing on the SDD specification itself. > > Cheers, > > /john patton/ > > > > Yes, it's still up to the runtime or tooling that fulfill the > > requirement, but the specification shouldn't preclude the use > > case, either. FYI, as an example of the listed use case 19, I > > sometimes need to view/install English contents even if both > > the Japanese are available in contents and the target system > > supports it. > > > > - Keisuke > > > > > > Patton, John H wrote: > > > Actually, the more I look at this, the more I'm thinking > > that 2.13.2 > > > is not necessary. That should be handled during runtime or by the > > > tooling. Does anyone else agree with me on that? > > > > > > 2.13.3 (modified rewrite with Rob's suggestions) The SDD > > specification > > > must support defining a default or fallback locale to be used in > > > hosting environments where localized content is unavailable > > or has not > > > been defined for the hosting environment's locale. > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > /john patton/ > > > > > > *-- > > > **c**a > > > *Senior Software Engineer > > > Office: 630 505-6150 > > > Cell: 847-224-9196 > > > john.patton@ca.com <_mailto:john.patton@ca.com_> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > *From:* Robert Dickau [_mailto:rdickau@macrovision.com_] > > > *Sent:* Friday, March 03, 2006 1:27 PM > > > *To:* Patton, John H; sdd@lists.oasis-open.org > > > *Subject:* RE: [sdd] 2.13.3 > > > > > > This rewording is much clearer. I now read the > > requirement to mean > > > that one (the install operator?) can specify "fall back > > > to Esperanto content when the hosting environment's locale isn't > > > specifically included". > > > > > > Predictably, I'd prefer "must support definition of a default > > > locale" to "support defining a default locale"; and > > would a phrase > > > like "fallback locale" be more appropriate than "default locale" > > > to emphasize the intent of the requirement? > > > > > > (Looking at it, though, it doesn't seem much different from the > > > previous req 2.13.2, which states the install operator should be > > > able to view content in other than the target's locale.) > > > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------- > > ---------- > > > *From:* Patton, John H [_mailto:John.Patton@ca.com_] > > > *Sent:* Friday, 03 March 2006 11:33 am > > > *To:* sdd@lists.oasis-open.org > > > *Subject:* [sdd] 2.13.3 > > > > > > I believe this meets the spirit of the original. > > > > > > Suggestion: > > > 2.13.3 > > > The SDD specification must support defining a default > > locale to be > > > used in hosting environments where localized content is > > unavailable > > > or has not been defined for the hosting environment's locale. > > > > > > Original: > > > 2.13.3 The SDD specification must support the ability > > for the author > > > to define the localized content which should run properly on all > > > locale-specific versions of supported operating systems. > > > > > > Thoughts? > > > > > > /john patton/ > > > > > > *-- > > > **c**a > > > *Senior Software Engineer > > > Office: 630 505-6150 > > > Cell: 847-224-9196 > > > john.patton@ca.com <_mailto:john.patton@ca.com_> > > > > > > > > > > > >
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