There is no client side processing. That’s the requirement that creates the need for cql-form. If there were any capability for client side processing, the client would just make the CQL query itself. The only processing taking place at the client end is form processing. Ralph From: Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress [mailto:rden@loc.gov] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 4:07 PM To: Hammond,Tony; LeVan,Ralph; 'Matthew Dovey'; 'OASIS SWS TC' Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments Once again I'm not following and you'll need to break this down more. What (hypothetical) client side processing is it that we cannot assume? The model that I now have in my mind, based on all of the discussion so far, is that there is an html form at the server that the client retrieves, the user fills in some fields and others are hidden but the result is a URL that is a conformant SRU url (it will be after we make the necessary changes to the spec). So I not only do not see what client side processing is desired, but what sort of server pre-processing. What "lies outside and requires a preprocessing step". What is the "data presentation" issue? --Ray From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 2:10 PM To: LeVan,Ralph; Denenberg, Ray; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments Yes but let's remember that the browser is still sending that data to an intermediary process if not direct to the SRU service. One simply cannot assume client side processing - attractive as it is. Therefore that input data has got to get channelled through to a server side processing which will either fall within the SRU remit or else lie outside and thus require a preprocessing step. My hope is that we can find ways to accommodate this data presentation within the SRU protocol.
Tony
-----Original Message----- From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org] Sent: Fri 12/17/2010 6:58 PM To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
Browsers try to omit anything they can. Especially in GET requests, where all the parms have to be stuck in a size-limited URL.
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 1:40 PM To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
Thanks for that, Ray. Will need to take a closer look.
One thing that does occur immediately is that it should be the responsibility of the form creator to ensure that the fields are sent. Optional controls may exhibit different behaviour from fixed controls - is that true? In the case that fields without values are not sent we would anyway be eliding them serevr side. But I agree this does change things form the simpler processing model I had earlier assumed. I wonder though what the default behaviour of most modern browsers really is.
Tony
-----Original Message----- From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org] Sent: Fri 12/17/2010 2:47 PM To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
Here's the W3 page on forms. The "Successful controls" section describes what fields in a form will or will not be sent. Pull down lists without defaults are one example. Unchecked check boxes are another. Fields without values are not required to be returned.
http://www.w3.org/TR/html401/interact/forms.html#h-17.13.2
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com] Sent: Friday, December 17, 2010 6:39 AM To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
> Forms do not transmit all their fields.
I'm not sure that's correct. Or has certainly not been my experience anyway. If you had some example that I could check that would be really good. Certainly this changes things so there's a real need to substantiate.
Tony
-----Original Message----- From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org] Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 7:42 PM To: Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
The parameters will not be numbered consecutively if they come from a form. Forms do not transmit all their fields.
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 12:09 PM To: LeVan,Ralph; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
No. All the fields are present numbered consecutively in CQL order - not necessarily form order. The query builder will merely drop clauses (and fields thereof) with empty terms. It is the field contents that contribute to the query. The fact that one field was passed over, another included, is not recorded in the final string which is just a complete CQL query string.
So, if the fields are iterated over in clause order it does not matter. They are evaluated in proper sequence. There are no gaps in numbering.
Tony
-----Original Message----- From: LeVan,Ralph [mailto:levan@oclc.org] Sent: Thu 12/16/2010 3:23 PM To: Hammond, Tony; Hammond, Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
There can be gaps in the numbering. Not all fields present in a form get submitted.
Ralph
From: Hammond, Tony [mailto:t.hammond@nature.com] Sent: Thursday, December 16, 2010 6:08 AM To: Hammond,Tony; Ray Denenberg, Library of Congress; Matthew Dovey; LeVan,Ralph; OASIS SWS TC Subject: RE: [search-ws] queryn: Some further comments
Hi:
Some further comments.
1. On reflection I guess that "queryn" could be dispensed with as long as an empty "query" parameter were present in the query to a) signal the searchRetrieve operation, and b) to receive the assembled query.
2. I had earlier proposed briefer forms of the parameters which would make the querystring more manageable.
Instead of
"q1.idx", "q1.rel", "q1.trm", "q1.bln"
I proposed
"qi1", "qr1", "qt1", "qb1"
which are cleaner (half the length) and slighly easier to manipulate (only prefix and index to manage instead of prefix, index, and suffix).
3. Since the query parameters are built with integers they are arbitrarily extensible (do not require a fixed length form) and sort order is completely in hands of the form generator. Doesn't matter where the parameters appear on the form - just their call order. And then they can be simply iterated over.
4. My preference is still for an explicit count (queryn) as I think this is easier than trying to compute the number of clauses. And the count is already known to the form generator since it is adding an index to the clause parameters. Would almost seem to be a no-brainer.
5. Because of the boolean coupling of search clauses we require a boolean associated with the search clause which for convenience we take to be trailing - i.e. operates between this clause and any subsequent clause. The final boolean in the series will always be omitted.
Tony
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