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Subject: Re: [security-services] Minutes for July 13 SSTC Call


  On 07/27/2010 09:48 AM, Anil Saldhana wrote:
>  On 07/13/2010 12:31 PM, Paul Madsen wrote:
>>  AGENDA:
>>
>> 1. Roll Call & Agenda Review.
>>
> Voting Members:
> John Bradley  Individual
> Nathan Klingenstein Internet2
> Thomas Hardjono M.I.T.
> Anthony Nadalin Microsoft Corporation
> Thinh Nguyenphu Nokia Siemens Networks GmbH & Co. KG
> Hal Lockhart Oracle Corporation
> Emily Xu Oracle Corporation
> Anil Saldhana Red Hat
> Rob Philpott, EMC Corporation

> Members:
> Paul Madsen NTT Corporation
> Federico Rossini Telecom Italia S.p.a.
>
> Status: Ari Kermaier lost voting rights.
> Quorum: 9 out of 14 (64%)
>> Quorum met
>>
>> 2. Need a volunteer to take minutes.
>>
>> Paul will minute
>>
>> 3. Approval of minutes from last meetings:
>>
>> Minutes from SSTC Call on 29 June 2010:
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/security/email/archives/201007/msg00000.html 
>>
>>
>> John B moves to approve, Hal seconds.
>>
>> No objections, minutes approved
>>
>> 4. AIs & progress update on current work-items:
>>
>> (a) Current electronic ballots: None
>>
>> (b) Status/notes regarding past ballots: None.
>>
>> (c) SAML V2.0 Holder-of-Key Web Browser SSO Profile Version 1.0 as a CS
>> - Status: New ballot has been requested. Still awaiting.
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/security/email/archives/201006/msg00032.html 
>>
>>
>> Did not have sufficient votes 3 weeks ago. Pending with Mary
>>
>> Hal notes that OASIS had email problems a week ago. Some messages may 
>> have been lost.
>>
>> Thomas will follow up with Mary to confirm
>>
>> (d) SAML V2.0 Holder-of-Key Assertion Profile Version 1.0
>> - Status: CS-01 version of this doc is on WiKi.
>> - AI: Thomas to ask Mary to move into Doc tree.
>> - Status: Awaiting Mary.
>>
>> Thomas needs to follow up with Mary to move document
>>
>> (e) Kerberos related items. [Josh/Thomas]
>> - Kerberos Web Browser SSO Profile:
>> - Status: Public review period closed on 15 June 2010.
>> - Status: Comments received for Attribute profile. Spec will be updated.
>>
>> Thomas and Josh received comments from Carnegie Mellon - an 
>> interesting use case. Will update attribute profile spec
>>
>> Dialog is on comments list for SSTC
>>
>> (f) Expressing Identity Assurance profile for SAML2.0 (LOA)
>> - Status: Public review period closed on 13 June 2010.
>> - Status: Awaiting comments/resolutions.
>>
>> Paul, Scott and I reworking, will be uploaded in near term
>>
>> Hal, OASIS process requires that , perhaps at CS status, that all 
>> comments are acknowledged and addressed. As a courtesy, we could 
>> respond through email to commenters
>>
>> (g) Older docs: Thomas has formally asked Mary to post these 4 docs 
>> (3/11th)
>> (I) Protocol Extension for Third-Party Requests (CS-01)
>> (II) Protocol Extension for Requested Authentication Context (CS-01)
>> (III) Shared Credentials Authentication Context Extension and Related 
>> Classes (CS-01)
>> (IV) Text-based Challenge/Response (CS-01)
>> - Status: Posted.
>>
>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/security/saml/SpecDrafts-Post2.0/sstc-saml-protocol-ext-thirdparty.html 
>>
>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/security/saml/SpecDrafts-Post2.0/sstc-saml-protocol-ext-rac-cs-01.html 
>>
>> http://docs.oasis-open.org/security/saml/SpecDrafts-Post2.0/sstc-saml-context-ext-sc-cs-01.html 
>>
>> http://http://docs.oasis-open.org/security/saml/SpecDrafts-Post2.0/sstc-saml-text-based-challenge-response-authn-context-class-cs-01.html 
>>
>>
>>
>> (h) SOA-TEL Token Correlation Profile (Federico/TI)
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/38374/sstc-saml-token%20correlation-profile-v0.8.pdf 
>>
>>
>> Federico & colleague will explain.
>>
>> Document defines the syntax to express a relation between two SAML 
>> assertion, a “main”
>> one and a “related” one.
>>
>> The syntax defined defines a new security profile, in which a SAML 
>> assertion is
>> syntactically and semantically meaningful if it is presented in 
>> relation with another “related”
>> SAML assertion; it enables to express a relation between two security 
>> SAML assertions
>>
>> 1. the SAML assertion cannot be built and considered valid if it 
>> isn't presented together with
>> another “related” SAML assertion,
>>
>> 2. The authorization is granted only in presence of both the subjects 
>> of the two SAML assertions.
>>
>> Motivated by complex business processes
>>
>> Thomas asks 'would it be simpler if the first assertion were hashed, 
>> and the hash inserted into the second, both sent to SP?
>>
>> Federico - yes but we want to be able to express constraints on the 2 
>> subjects of the 2 assertions.
>>
>> Thomas, is it not already possible to embed one assertion in another?
>>
>> Hal, you could put one assertion into the Advice of another. But not 
>> clear what semantic Federico is hoping to express with the embed?
>>
>> Thomas, believe they want an intermediary to hold onto SAML1 for a 
>> long running process, and when appropriate, be able to get a SAML2 
>> assertion (with SAML1 within)
>>
>> Hal asks, why must they be embedded, why not simply have both 
>> assertions?
>>
>> Federico, simply require a strong link between the two assertions
>>
>> Thomas, existing <Advice> element allows embedding assertions?
>>
>> Federico, more important than the syntax,
>>
>> Nate, for SAML 1.1, is there not an issue with being able to sign an 
>> assertion? whcih would complicate this?
>>
>> Hal, thinks SAML 1.1 does allow
>>
>> Thomas, actually they are using SAML 2.0, just lisleading the labels 
>> on the diagram
>>
>> Nate, if the goal is to strongly link two assertions, you can embed, 
>> or point from one to the other
>>
>> Hal, is the linking fundamental?
>>
>> Nate, believe you cannot use the 2nd assertion without the first
>>
>> Paul, but <Advice> doesnt provide that semantic, better would be 
>> <Condition>?
>>
>> Nate, most important is how to represent the relationship from one 
>> assertion to another.
>> Another issue to consider is how to avoid pointing to expired 
>> assertions, need to ensure that the lifetime of the first assertion 
>> exceeds the business process duration
>>
>> Federico, yes noted
>>
>> Paul, is the different audiences of the two assertion another issue?
>>
>> Nate, the delegation profile of Scott's could help here.
>>
>> Hal, dangerous to allow for ignoring an expiration time
>>
>> Nate, uncomfortable with an SP ignoring the mandatory assertion checks
>>
>> Hal, sounds more like a WS-Security use case....Dependency is in the 
>> context of this particular transaction, where signatures over 
>> messages could better express the semantic of the dependency
>>
>> Nate, we want to keep the assertion as representing identity
>>
>> Thomas, summary is that the assertions talk about the subjects 
>> (requestor and intermediary). The assertions dont carry enough info 
>> about the context of the transaction. perhaps easier to epxress the 
>> dependencies in WS-Sec.
>>
>> Federico, but what is the <Conditions> for if not this sort of thing?
>>
>> Nate agrees, thinks the assertions are being used for a 
>> capability/privilege model,
>>
>> Rob, Conditions can be anything, you define a new element of the 
>> ConditionType and extend appropriately
>>
>> Nate, Consensus is that <Conditions> is the appropriate soln for 
>> expressing the Token-Correlation,
>> Could be either a pointer, or embedded. Both assertions should be 
>> valid when received by the SP
>>
>> Thin, Believe the proposal is to deal with expired assertions? SP 
>> requests an extension?
>>
>> Nate, dont think so, believe expiration is a separate problem. Core 
>> aspect for this use case is 'Validity of Token 1 depends on Token 2'.
>>
>> Thomas, can Federico come back and give an update?
>>
>> Feerico, yes, let me know when
>>
>> (h) NSN Attribute Management proposal (Thinh/Phil) - any updates?
>>
>> Phil indicated there would be an update posted soon
>>
>> (i) SSO initiation CD (Scott) - any updates?
>>
>> 5. New work items:
>> - Project Moonshot (potential new work item)
>> - IETF Federated Authentication BOF (at July IETF meeting)
>>
>> Hopefully Josh Howlett can brief us someday
>>
>> 6. Propose an SSTC Face-to-Face meeting for September 2010:
>> - Awaiting for room confirmation.
>>
>> Still waiting to determine if we can get a room
>>
>> 8. Next Call: Tuesday 27 July, 2010.
>>
>> Nate moves to adjourn, Hal seconds
>>
>> Adjourned


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