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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
Given we have documented the data model as a key aspect of SOA in the RM, I think it depends on the "view" of the service. If one views a service as a gateway to a process, the data likely becomes secondary, if they view it as a means to generate a specific piece of data, perhaps it takes on higher importance. Toe-may-toe Tah-mah-ta D On 8/25/06 8:55 AM, "Francis McCabe" <frankmccabe@mac.com> wrote: > While I agree completely that data is *always* involved in services, > I do not think that that is the key aspect of SOA. > I would assert that *action* is of the essence in SOA, not *data*. > > Contrast this with the normal Web architecture. In that model, > information is of the essence, and action is a side-effect. > > Frank > > > On Aug 25, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Duane Nickull wrote: > >> I feel a strong sense that the old ³is null a value² question is >> coming on ;-) >> >> I think that all services must utilize data at some juncture of the >> invocation lifecycle. Otherwise, why would anyone build an interface? >> >> D >> >> >> >> On 8/25/06 1:08 AM, "Jones, Steve G" <steve.g.jones@capgemini.com> >> wrote: >> >>> If we are being random, a NOP service wouldnıt use data. But Iım >>> not quite sure what the real world effect would be either. But >>> Iım not sure that we need to worry about service provider types >>> either because the consumer doesnıt care as long as it meets the >>> contract. >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] >>> Sent: 24 August 2006 17:26 >>> To: Chiusano Joseph; Ken Laskey >>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question >>> >>> Is there any service that does not use data? >>> >>> D >>> >>> >>> On 8/24/06 6:29 AM, "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> >>> wrote: >>> Not types of service providers; service providers that provide >>> certain types of services (e.g. data service provider = service >>> provider of data services). >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> Joseph Chiusano >>> Associate >>> Booz Allen Hamilton >>> >>> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100 >>> Washington, DC 20005 >>> O: 202-508-6514 >>> C: 202-251-0731 >>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <blocked::http:// >>> www.boozallen.com/> <http://www.boozallen.com/%3e> >>> >>> >>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] >>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d> >>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:49 AM >>> To: Chiusano Joseph >>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question >>> >>> Joe, >>> >>> But I'm not sure "types" of service providers is relevant. I look >>> at a service description, decide if the real world effects are >>> what I want (and whether the rest of the execution context stuff >>> can be aligned), and then I proceed with the interaction. If I >>> ask for information, I don't know (unless I have a business reason >>> for this to be part of my rationale for which service to use) if >>> it is "data" from a database, results from a simulation, or >>> Mechanical Turk. >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:33 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote: >>> >>> >>> I think it's a question of service providers, but more >>> specifically of what *types* of services. So there can be data >>> service providers, perhaps process service providers (e.g. BPEL- >>> based processes), and perhaps even application service providers >>> in a different sense than the traditional ASP (perhaps service- >>> based applications). >>> >>> >>> >>> Joe >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] >>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d> >>> Sent: Wed 8/23/2006 10:19 PM >>> To: Michael Stiefel >>> Cc: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael, >>> >>> >>> >>> My question is whether there are providers in the SOA sense for >>> something other than services. For example, one could say there >>> are data providers but wouldn't they have their data sources >>> accessed using services? Does that apply to all providing >>> stakeholders? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> On Aug 23, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Michael Stiefel wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> Aren't users of the services stakeholders? >>> >>> >>> >>> Aren't manufacturers of equipment stakeholders? >>> >>> >>> >>> Is the government that collects a tax or regulates a stakeholder? >>> >>> >>> >>> Aren't the "victims" we discussed at the F2F stakeholders as well? >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> At 05:57 PM 8/23/2006, Ken Laskey wrote: >>> >>> >>> Can we have stakeholders who are providers or maintainers of >>> something other than services? Or, do we assume by the nature of >>> SOA that if you provide something other than a service, that >>> something is a capability that must have a service access, so you >>> always end up a service provider? >>> >>> >>> >>> Ken >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------ >>> >>> / Ken >>> Laskey >>> \ >>> >>> | MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 | >>> >>> | 7515 Colshire Drive fax: >>> 703-983-1379 | >>> >>> \ McLean VA >>> 22102-7508 / >>> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ------------- >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> >>> Ken Laskey >>> >>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>> >>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>> >>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> --- >>> Ken Laskey >>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 >>> 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 >>> McLean VA 22102-7508 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> This message contains information that may be privileged or >>> confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is >>> intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are >>> not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, >>> print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message >>> or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please >>> notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. >>> >>> >> >
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