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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question


Given we have documented the data model as a key aspect of SOA in the RM, I
think it depends on the "view" of the service.  If one views a service as a
gateway to a process, the data likely becomes secondary, if they view it as
a means to generate a specific piece of data, perhaps it takes on higher
importance.

Toe-may-toe Tah-mah-ta

D


On 8/25/06 8:55 AM, "Francis McCabe" <frankmccabe@mac.com> wrote:

> While I agree completely that data is *always* involved in services,
> I do not think that that is the key aspect of SOA.
> I would assert that *action* is of the essence in SOA, not *data*.
> 
> Contrast this with the normal Web architecture. In that model,
> information is of the essence, and action is a side-effect.
> 
> Frank
> 
> 
> On Aug 25, 2006, at 8:49 AM, Duane Nickull wrote:
> 
>> I feel a strong sense that the old ³is null a value² question is
>> coming on ;-)
>> 
>> I think that all services must utilize data at some juncture of the
>> invocation lifecycle.  Otherwise, why would anyone build an interface?
>> 
>> D
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 8/25/06 1:08 AM, "Jones, Steve G" <steve.g.jones@capgemini.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> If we are being random, a NOP service wouldnıt use data.  But Iım
>>> not quite sure what the real world effect would be either.  But
>>> Iım not sure that we need to worry about service provider types
>>> either because the consumer doesnıt care as long as it meets the
>>> contract.
>>> 
>>> Steve
>>> 
>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>> Sent: 24 August 2006 17:26
>>> To: Chiusano Joseph; Ken Laskey
>>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>> 
>>> Is there any service that does not use data?
>>> 
>>> D
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 8/24/06 6:29 AM, "Chiusano Joseph" <chiusano_joseph@bah.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> Not types of service providers; service providers that provide
>>> certain types of services (e.g. data service provider = service
>>> provider of data services).
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> Joseph Chiusano
>>> Associate
>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>> 
>>> 700 13th St. NW, Suite 1100
>>> Washington, DC 20005
>>> O: 202-508-6514
>>> C: 202-251-0731
>>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <blocked::http://
>>> www.boozallen.com/> <http://www.boozallen.com/%3e>
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d>
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 8:49 AM
>>> To: Chiusano Joseph
>>> Cc: Michael Stiefel; soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>> 
>>> Joe,
>>> 
>>> But I'm not sure "types" of service providers is relevant.  I look
>>> at a service description, decide if the real world effects are
>>> what I want (and whether the rest of the execution context stuff
>>> can be aligned), and then I proceed with the interaction.  If I
>>> ask for information, I don't know (unless I have a business reason
>>> for this to be part of my rationale for which service to use) if
>>> it is "data" from a database, results from a simulation, or
>>> Mechanical Turk.
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> On Aug 24, 2006, at 6:33 AM, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I think it's a question of  service providers, but more
>>> specifically of what *types* of services. So there  can be data
>>> service providers, perhaps process service providers (e.g.  BPEL-
>>> based processes), and perhaps even application service providers
>>> in a  different sense than the traditional ASP (perhaps service-
>>> based  applications).
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Joe
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org]
>>> <mailto:klaskey@mitre.org%5d>
>>> Sent:  Wed 8/23/2006 10:19 PM
>>> To: Michael Stiefel
>>> Cc: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject:  Re: [soa-rm-ra] random question
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> My question is whether there are providers in the SOA sense for
>>> something  other than services.  For example, one could say there
>>> are data providers  but wouldn't they have their data sources
>>> accessed using services?  Does  that apply to all providing
>>> stakeholders?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Aug 23, 2006, at 6:58 PM, Michael Stiefel wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Aren't users of the services stakeholders?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Aren't manufacturers of equipment  stakeholders?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Is the government that collects a tax or regulates  a stakeholder?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Aren't the "victims" we discussed at the F2F  stakeholders as well?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Michael
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At 05:57 PM 8/23/2006, Ken Laskey wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Can we have stakeholders who are providers or  maintainers of
>>> something other than services?  Or, do we assume by the nature  of
>>> SOA that if you provide something other than a service, that
>>> something  is a capability that must have a service access, so you
>>> always end up a  service provider?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Ken
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ------------
>>> 
>>>   /    Ken  
>>> Laskey         
>>>     \
>>> 
>>>  |    MITRE Corporation, M/S  H305    phone:  703-983-7934   |
>>> 
>>>  |    7515 Colshire Drive                     fax:
>>> 703-983-1379   |
>>> 
>>>   \    McLean VA
>>> 22102-7508                                                /
>>> 
>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> -------------
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> 
>>> Ken Laskey
>>> 
>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:   703-983-7934
>>> 
>>> 7515 Colshire Drive                         fax:         703-983-1379
>>> 
>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---
>>> Ken Laskey
>>> MITRE Corporation, M/S H305     phone:  703-983-7934
>>> 7515 Colshire Drive                        fax:        703-983-1379
>>> McLean VA 22102-7508
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> This message contains information that may be privileged or
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>> 
> 



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