Re: [soa-rm-ra] Policy_Contract_Business diagram - some questions

[Danny Thornton <danny_thornton2@yahoo.com>]

Michael,

The driving point you are making seems to be that a
policy is a contract or is referenced by a contract. 
From the business perspective, an organization could
be implementing support for a set of policies and not
contracts.  The OASIS SOA RA should account for this
scenario as much as it should account for the
implementation of a combination of policies and
contracts or contracts only.

What would be beneficial to the SOA RA SC is if you
would proposed a UML model that demonstrates the
relationships you are discussing.  You can also
provide textual descriptions to go with your model. 
The committee can then discuss it and take what the
committee likes best from the models.

Danny

--- michael.poulin@uk.fid-intl.com wrote:

> Hi Danny,
> 
> probably, it will be unfair to ask now something
> like 'What is the "perspective of a stakeholder"? I
> hope I will find it in the context.
> 
> I've got the major thing from your answer, I guess,
> - proposition is a measurable expression. The policy
> and the contract may have relationships with many
> propositions as it's shown on the diagram. OK.
> 
> However, the diagram does not state: 
> 1) if it possible to have NO propositions related to
> the policy or to the contract; 
> 2) if a proposition may/should be shared between the
> policy and the contract. 
> With such uncertainty, it is very difficult to say
> that the standard states a relationship between a
> contract and a policy.
> 
> Even with the reference to the Business Via Services
> world and an assumption that a Policy has/has-not a
> difference from a Contract, it impossible to
> conclude anything about Policy-Contract relationship
> (if they are identical, what the purpose of having
> two names?; if it is the same thing but viewed
> differently by different stakeholders, it is even
> more confusing to me to have it as different
> entities in the diagram).
> 
> If, finally, one assumes that Policy and Contract
> are different entities (in the Business Via Services
> world or wherever else), the explanation of the
> Proposition DOES NOT answer my question: how the
> standard/digram defines the relationship between a
> Policy and a Contract.
> 
> At the end, I would like to say that I have tried to
> apply the Policy&Contract Section to creation of a
> Service Contract definition for my services in my
> company. Unfortunately, I have found that w/o
> concrete definition of the P&C relationships, the
> whole Section appears impractical to me and my team.
> As a result, we have defined an XML Schema for the
> Service Contract Template, which includes Policies
> themselves  and/or references to the Policies. After
> a few brainstorms aimed to compromise such
> relationship, we have accepted our Service Contract
> Template as the working model. That is, our model
> does not match the diagram I am discussing in this
> thread.
> 
> Could you, please, point to the thing we've missed
> or to the problem we've had with regard to this
> case?
> 
> - Michael 
> 
> 
>  
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Policy_Contract_Business
> diagram - some questions
> 
>     * From: Danny Thornton
> <danny_thornton2@yahoo.com>
>     * To: michael.poulin@uk.fid-intl.com,
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
>     * Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2007 13:44:41 -0700 (PDT)
> 
> Hi Micheal,
> 
> A proposition is an expression whose truth can be
> measured.  The following is the definition from the
> Business via Services section.
> 
> Proposition:  A proposition is an expression,
> normally
> in a language that has a well-defined written form,
> that expresses some property of the world from the
> perspective of a stakeholder. The truth of the
> proposition may be measured  using a decision
> procedure  by examining the world and checking that
> the proposition and the world are consistent with
> each
> other.
> 
> The beginning diagram in the policies and contracts
> model is a tie to the Business via Services section.
> 
> The differentiating meaning between Policy and
> Contract is in the Business Via Services world.  The
> IT mechanisms measure the propositions of both
> policies and contracts.
> 
> Danny


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