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Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Another diagram
I think Danny's point was that the predicted (expected, intended, desired) RWE determines Willingness, but we don't yet have distinctions for different kinds or aspects of RWE in the RAF. Ken's diagrams and Dave's description of the latest DoDAF/DISA thinking include that, but we haven't accepted that yet. The problem with these types: positive-predicted-expected-intended-desired RWE v. negative-unintended RWE is that the positive is acted upon based on the projected future state while the negative is only apparent as something that ought to habe been avoided AFTER actual RWE happens, e.g. after state change. To use Ken's model of Trust-Risk with Frank's, Risk would now need to be an Association Class to match Trust, but the temporal aspects of Trust and Risk are out of synch, except as past experience is used in the assessment phase prior to reaching the (unincluded) Willingness Threshold, triggering Willingness as currently modeled. If we just say up front that we are not chained to synchronous context, we can lose that problem. However, if we use Danny's diagram Ken's model of Risk would not need to be changed because it seems to retain Trust as a simple Class not an Association Class so Ken's model of Tuest-Risk would not need to be changed. However, the question of whether, where and how to use Risk remains. I like Frank's diagram marginally better than Danny's (as it now stands even with changing the dependency of Willingness on temporally undifferentiated RWE) because I think State needs to be Shared State for interaction to proceed. I understand Duane's comment now too. Let's send in some nanobots next time we want to look under a big rock like Trust. ;-) Cheers, Rex At 10:11 PM -0700 5/13/09, Francis McCabe wrote: >Danny > Your diagram seems to show that RWE determines willingness. You >surely do not mean that? >Frank >On May 13, 2009, at 9:35 PM, Danny Thornton wrote: > >>Making a decision based on a belief that is contradicted by >>evidence means a set of rules exist that are higher priority than >>the attempt to create new rules based on evidence. In either case >>there is a rule base (willingness) for the decision making process. >> >>In the opposite case, as in the con man, rules may override >>preexisting rules based on evidence, even if the evidence is false. >> >>Trust does not have to be based on an action but is based on some >>expected real world effect. Ken has stated this observation a >>couple of times. A computing system may calculate that the >>resources required to prevent negative consequences outweighs the >>negative consequences. The negative consequences may be due to >>actions or inaction. >> >>I've attached an updated version of Frank's diagram with these >>views. I specifically did not give State the name of Shared State >>and I specifically did not connect State to Real World Effect >>(Duane's con man example and also the case of insanity). >> >>Danny >> >> >>--- On Wed, 5/13/09, Duane Nickull <dnickull@adobe.com> wrote: >> >>>From: Duane Nickull <dnickull@adobe.com> >>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] Another diagram >>>To: "Ken Laskey" <klaskey@mitre.org>, "Rex Brooks" <rexb@starbourne.com> >>>Cc: "Francis McCabe" <frankmccabe@mac.com>, >>>"soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >>>Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 2:31 PM >>> >>> >>>Re: [soa-rm-ra] Another diagram >>> >>> >>>I agree with Ken (especially the >>>part about not trusting Bettina to pick out a good action >>>movie). I think that "evidence" is really >>>"beliefs" or similar. Many people see >>>evidence to the contrary but still believe their original >>>notions. For example, your see evidence that >>>contradicts your deep rooted beliefs. Most people >>>still like to cling to their belief system. >>> >>> >>> >>>D >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>On 5/13/09 2:00 PM, "Ken Laskey" <klaskey@mitre.org> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>I do not >>>trust her to go to the video >>> >>>store and pick out a good action adventure movie. >>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>> >>>Sr. Technical Evangelist - Adobe Systems >>> >>>Chair - OASIS SOA RM Technical Committee >>> >>>Manager - Adobe LiveCycle ES Developers List >>> >>>Blog: http://technoracle.blogspot.com >>> >>>Twitter: duanechaos >>> >>>TV Show: http://www.duanesworldtv.org >>> >>>Band: http://www.myspace.com/22ndcentury >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >><Trust.png>--------------------------------------------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC that >>generates this mail. Follow this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: >>https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php > > > >Attachment converted: Macintosh HD:smime 1063.p7s ( / ) (017418A3) -- Rex Brooks President, CEO Starbourne Communications Design GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison Berkeley, CA 94702 Tel: 510-898-0670
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