I concur with Frank, composition or aggregation
qualifications to service make for an odd discussion in
section 1.2. Section 4.3.4, Composition of
Services, addresses the topic for the RAF. The points about
aggregation/composition could be weaved into section 4.3.4.
Danny
I need to repeat this a little louder I guess: IT DOES NOT WORK FOR
ME
This entire discussion around composition of services is (a) superficial
and (b) beside the point in relation to the vast majority of the RAF. If we are
going to take composition more seriously, then it MUST wait until after
PR2.
Frank
On Sep 27, 2009, at 11:38 AM, Duane Nickull wrote:
Works for me.
On 9/27/09 11:30 AM, "Mike
Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>
wrote:
Yes, Duane, in general, no
objections.
However, do we need to define composition 'in general' in
SOA RA or primarily with respect to services?
If the letter is our
intention, let me 'trim' your definition in this
way:
<<composition is a way to combine services into more
complex ones. The components or individual services, while part of the
whole, may exist independent of the whole.>>
What do you
think?
– Michael
> ----- Original Message ----- >
From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com> > To:
"Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "James Odell"
<email@jamesodell.com>,
"soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org"
<soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >
Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: [soa-rm-ra] p
ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > Date: Sun, 27
Sep 2009 10:43:27 -0700 > > I am fine with it as long as we
define it such as: > > composition is a way to combine services,
objects or data types > into more complex ones. The components,
while part of the whole, > may exist independent of the
whole. > > Duane > > > On 9/27/09 2:35 AM,
"Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>
wrote: > > In my mind, composition facilitates
reuse. > > The next question in this row is 'what is reuse?'
I define service > reuse as the use of the service in the
changed/new execution > context; otherwise, it is just a multiple use
of the service (i.e. > exactly how the service was defined. This, BTW,
leads to one more > issue (a chain of reaction): the execution context
description has > to be a part of the Service Description, i.e. the
service > definition for the consumers) > > -
Michael > > > > > ----- Original Message
----- > > From: "Duane Nickull" <dnickull@adobe.com> > >
To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "James
Odell" > > <email@jamesodell.com>, "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org" >
> <soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: >
> [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT and
business] > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 16:32:29 -0700 >
> > > If this is the consensus, I am happy with this as long as
we add a > > glossary term to denote that the composition does not
necessarily > > preclude reuse (ie – independent lifecycles
for the parts). > > > > D > > >
> > > On 9/26/09 2:54 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: >
> > > I used term 'composite' only because this word has somehow
become > > commonly used but its sense is certainly
'aggregate'. > > > > I am happy with '...independent and
aggregate services...' while, > > IMO, 'composable' and
'independent' are not antonyms: and > > independent service may be
composed of other services. Aggregate, > > in the contrast, is the
service that depends on others. > > > > I remember related
discussion about a year ago in one of the > > Telecoms; I started
to use the term 'aggregate' since that time > > but was asked
on several occasions what it meant. > > > > -
Michael > > > > > > > > > >
> ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "James Odell"
<email@jamesodell.com> >
> > To: "soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org"
<soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org> >
> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday
[was: > > > [soa-rm-ra] p ositioning SOA on the cusp between IT
and business] > > > Date: Sat, 26 Sep 2009 15:22:54
-0400 > > > > > > > > > Additionally in
UML ³composite aggregation², the > > composite object
has > > > responsibility for the existence and storage of the
composed objects > > > (parts). So can a composite service
be thought of as having the > > > responsibility for the
existence and storage of the composed objects > > > (parts)?
I would say yes ‹ but is this always true? For >
> > example a Process > > > Order service could defined as
a SOAservice that has > > responsibility for the > > >
existence for other first class services that are composed (e.g.,
Accept > > > order, Fill Order, Ship Order and Close Order).
Here, the cmpositing > > > service could include service
orchestration, as Duane suggests. > > > On the other hand, Could
I have a service that is a ³taxonomic² > > >
aggregation. > > > For example, a Process Payment service may
simply consist of > > various kinds > > > of
first class payment services, such as Cash Payment, Credit > > Card
Payment, > > > Wire Transfer payment, etc). However, one
could also argue > > that event this > > > could be
thought of a composite, because it the responsibiliy for the > >
> existence and storage of the composed services. However, this may
or may > > > not nvolve orchestration ‹ only part
whole. > > > > > > -Jim Odell > >
> > > > > > > On 9/25/09 6:14 PM, "Duane Nickull"
indited: > > > > > > > Via Aggregation.
Aggregation is a UML pattern whereby the parts > > > >
are ³used² by > > > > the whole. If th whole does
not exist, the parts can exist which is > > > > necessary for
re-use. Composition (by contrast) is a UML > > > pattern
whereby the > > > > parts are ³part of² the whole,
hence their lifecycle is tied > > > to the lifecycle >
> > > of the whole. When the whole ceases to
exist, so do the parts, > > > > hence making > >
> > ³reuse² not possible. > > > > > >
> > I think aggregation is a better term, however the press and others
have > > > > already gone with ³service composition² as
a buzzword. > > > Service Orchestration > > > >
is just as good as aggregation IMO. > > > > > > >
> Duane > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > On 9/25/09 2:50 PM, "Lublinsky, Boris" >
> <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>
wrote: > > > > > > > >> If the services are
not composable, then how are they better > > compared to >
> > >> existing applications > > > >> >
> > >> --- original message --- > > > >> From:
"Rex Brooks" <rexb@starboune.com> > >
> >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for
Wednesday > > [was: [soa-rm-r] > > > >>
positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and business] > > >
>> Date: September 25, 2009 > > > >> Time: 4:41:26
PM > > > >> > > > >> Duane, I'm
picturing you tugging on Superman's cape, while > > spittin'
into > > > >> the wind, tilting at windmills and messin'
with Bad Bad LeRoy Brown, > > > >> while sliding into
heaven sideways, brew in hand singing, > > "What a Ride!" >
> > >> > > > >> You're right, and so is Frank,
and I definitely prefer "aggregate-able > > > >> or
capable of being included in various types of aggregations,"... > >
> >> > > > >> but I think the boat already left,
folks. We don't have to > > catch up with > > >
>> it nor need we catch the next one. It will go as it will. >
> > >> > > > >> I personally don't have strong
enough feelings about it to be road kill > > > >> for it
or against it. I happen to be involved in a set of SOA services > >
> >> that absolutely MUST be composable, but I am satisfied
that > > they will be > > > >> regardless of how
this sentence in theSOA-RAF introduction is worded. > > >
>> > > > >> It makes it marginally easier for me to
get the business audiences I > > > >> deal with to act
right if "composable" services is something > > I can point >
> > >> to when or if we get people insisting on something really
dumb, like > > > >> "Point-to-Point" is the only
distribution protocol that counts," or "we > > > >> can
use the rules for RSS Feeds for all distribution." I > > suppose
its not > > > >> impossible, but I don't really expect to
see it. > > > >> > > > >> BTW, I don't
read the sentence to ean that ALL independent services > > >
>> MUST also be composable. It means " a network of independent
services > > > >> and/or composable services." I think
independent composable services is > > > >> almost a
contradiction of erms or almost an oxymoron. > > >
>> > > > >> Cheers, > > > >>
Rex > > > >> > > > >> Duane Nickull
wrote: > > > >>> > My take on this: > >
> >>> > > > > >>> > > > >
>>> > > > > > http://technoracle.blogspot.com/2007/09/soa-anti-patterns-service-compositio >
> > >>> n.html > > > >>> > >
> > >>> > D > > > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > > >>> > On 9/25/9
1:21 PM, "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com> wrote: >
> > >>> > > > > >>> >
I do not have any strong objections. > >
> >>> > > > > >>> >
'Composable' means to me that the service may be
composed; the > > > >>> >
question is - composed by what and how this
corresponds to > > > >>> >
'independent'? 'Composite' or 'aggregate' (as
Ken > > pointed once) is > > > >>> >
the service, which is composed already by other
services, which > > > >>> >
comprises other services, i.e. it is not
independent. > > This is what > > > >>> >
I tried to "EmFasis" :-) > > >
>>> > > > > >>> >
You, folks, decide. > > > >>>
> > > > >>> > -
Michael > > > >>> > > > > >>>
> > > > >>>> > >
----- Original Message ----- > > > >>>> >
> From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >
> > >>>> > > To: "Lublinsky,
Boris" <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>,
"Mike > > > >>> > Poulin"
<mpoulin@usa.com>, soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>> > > Subject: RE:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > >
>>> > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the
cusp between IT and business] > > > >>>> >
> Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 15:01:34 -0500 >
> > >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > Mike, I like the
sentence. Boris, I think that "composable > > >
>>> > services" is > > >
>>>> > > the correct term.
I've heard many "experts" and > > > "gurus" use
the > > > term > > > >>>> >
> and concept since at least 2003 and seems to me
to put the > > > >>> >
"EmFasis on > > > >>>> >
> the rite Silobbal", as my dad would
say. > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> -----Original Message----- > > >
>>>> > > From: Lublinsky, Boris
[mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] >
> > >>>> > > Sent:
Friday,September 25, 2009 3:50 PM > > > >>>> >
> To: Mike Poulin; Ellinger, Robert S (IS);
Lublinsky, Boris; > > > >>>> >
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>> > > Subject: RE:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning
SOA on the cusp between IT > > > and business] > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > Composable? > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > -----Original
Message----- > > > >>>> >
> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > >
>>>> > > Sent: Friday, September 25,
2009 2:27 PM > > > >>>> >
> To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike Poulin;
Lublinsky, Boris; > > > >>>> >
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>> > > Subject: RE:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>> > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning
SOA on the cusp between IT > > > and business] > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > Bob, > > >
>>>> > > this is the
phrase: > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> From a holistic perspective, a SOA-based
system is > > > a network of > > > >>>>
> > independent services, machines, the people
who > > operate, affect, > > > >>> >
use and > > > >>>> >
> govern those services as well as ... >
> > >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > I propose to say: "...a
network of independent and composite > > > >>> >
services, > > > >>>> >
> machines, the..." > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > - Michael > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > ----- Original
Message ----- > > > >>>>> >
> > From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >
> > >>>>> > > > To:
"Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky,
Boris" > > > >>>> > >
<boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>,
soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>> > > >
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > > Wednesday
[was: > > > >>>> > >
[soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > > > and
business] > > > >>>>> >
> > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 13:40:28
-0500 > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > There was one
sentence that you sent that I could > > > not make head >
> > or > > > >>>> >
> tail > > > >>>>>
> > > of as I noted. Otherwise, I
hought I had > > > incorporated all of > > >
your > > > >>>>> >
> > comments > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > Bob >
> > >>>>> > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > -----Original Message----- > >
> >>>>> > > > From: Mike
Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] >
> > >>>>> > > > Sent:
Friday, September 25, 2009 1:31 PM > > > >>>>>
> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Mike
Poulin; > > Lublinsky, Boris; > > >
>>>>> > > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>> > > >
Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > > Wednesday
[was: > > > >>>> > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > > >
and business] > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > I am afraid, I am lost. I do not see
some of the > > > >>>>> crucial changes >
> > I > > > >>>>> >
> > advocated for and you agreed to
accommodate: > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > "The SOA
Ecosystem described in this document must > > >
>>>>> be understood > > > in > > >
>>>>> > > > terms of its
support of business services." > > > >>>>> >
> > - MP - great! > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Business
services provide business functionality > > > in pursuit
of > > > >>>> > >
business > > > >>>>> >
> > outcome; while SOA services provide IT
artifacts > > > >>>>> that facilitate >
> > >>>>> > > >
connectivity of functional units to realize and > > support
the > > > >>> >
business > > > >>>>> >
> > services." > > >
>>>>> > > > - MP - my
proposal: 'Business services provide business > > > >>>
> functionality > > >
>>>> > > in > > >
>>>>> > > > pursuit of the
business outcome; while IT > > > artifacts facilitate >
> > >>>>> > > >
connectivity of functional units to realize and > > support
the > > > >>> >
business > > > >>>>> >
> > services.' > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Therefore,
SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > > > >>>>>
Business, but is > > > of > > > >>>>
> > both > > >
>>>>> > > > worlds." >
> > >>>>> > > > - MP -
great! You commented: 'This doesn't make > > > sense to me.
It > > > >>> > is
not > > > >>>>> > >
> cnnected to SOA in anyway' but left the > > statement. I am
for > > > having > > > >>>> >
>this > > > >>>>> >
> > statement as it is (it is not my text but
very > > right oe IMO) > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > "Neither Business nor IT completely
own govern, and manage > > > >>> >
this SOA > > > >>>>> >
> > Ecosystem. The SOA Eosystem must
accommodate both sets of > > > concerns > > >
>>>> > > for > > >
>>>>> > > > t fulfill its
purpose and potential." > > > >>>>> >
> > - MP - great! > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > "Business
needs to drive the development of > > > services
delivered > > > >>> >
through > > > >>>>> >
> > processes and its supporting IT, which
provides > > > the capability > > > that >
> > >>>>> > > >
satisfies those needs. This is the business value of SOA." > > >
>>>>> > > > - MP -
development of services is not necessary delivered > > >
through > > > >>>>> >
> > processes and supporting IT. This is why
my proposal is: > > > >>>>> >
> > 'Business needs to drive the
development of > > > services, which > > >
>>> > provides > > >
>>>>> > > > the capability
that satisfies those needs. This > > > is the business >
> > >>> > value > > >
>>>> > > of > > >
>>>>> > > > SOA.' >
> > >>>>> > > >
or > > > >>>>> > >
> 'Business needs to drive the development of > >
> >>>>> services delivered > > >
>>>> > > through > > >
>>>>> > > > Business and IT,
which provides the capability > > > that satisfies > >
> those > > > >>>>> >
> > needs. This is the business value of
SOA.' > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > (i.e. none Business or IT , or both;
SOA is in > > between them) > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > Thus, my
variant of the text looks like this: > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > The SOA
Ecosystem described in this document must > > > be
understood > > > in > > > >>>> >
> terms > > > >>>>>
> > > of its support of business services.
Business > > > services provide > > >
>>>> > > business > >
> >>>>> > > >
functionality in pursuit of the business outcome; while IT > > >
>>> > artifacts > > >
>>>>> > > > facilitate
connectivity of functional units to realize and > > >
>>> > support the > > >
>>>>> > > > business
services. Therefore, SOA is neither wholly IT nor > > >
wholly > > > >>>>> >
> > Business, but is of both worlds. Neither
Business > > > nor IT >>>>> > > >
completely > > > >>>> >
> own, > > > >>>>>
> > > govern, and manage this SOA
Ecosystem. The SOA > > > Ecosystem must > > >
>>>>> > > > accommodate both
sets of concerns for to fulfill > > > >>>>> its
purpose and > > > >>>>> >
> > potential. Business needs to drive
the > > > development of services, > > >
>>> > which > > >
>>>>> > > > provides the
capability that satisfies those > > > needs. This is the >
> > >>>> > >
business > > > >>>>> >
> > value of SOA. > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > - Michael > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > >
> > >>>>> > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > ----- Original Message
----- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > From: "Ellinger, Robert S
(IS)" > > <robert.ellinger@ngc.com> >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> To: "Mike Poulin" <mpoulin@usa.com>, "Lublinsky,
Boris" > > > >>>>> >
> > <boris.lublinsky@navteq.com>, >
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > >
>>>>>> Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>>> > > > [soa-rm-ra]
positioning SOA on the cusp between IT > > >
>>>>> and business] > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Date:
Fri, 25 Sep 2009 10:56:23 -0500 > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Try this. > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Bob > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Sent:
Friday, September 25, 2009 11:31 AM > > >
>>>>>> > > > > To:
Lublinsky, Boris; Mike Poulin; > > > >>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > >
>>>>>> Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
[soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > > >
business] > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Boris has reminded me one thing: in
the > > > paragraph following > > > >>>
> the two > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
paragraphs we are discussing now we say > > > something like
'SOA > > > is a > > > >>>>> >
> > network > > >
>>>>>> > > > > of
independent services...' I would modify > > > this phrase a
bit > > > >>> >
saying > > > >>>>>>
> > > > something like 'SOA is a network
of independent > > > >>>>>> and
composite > > > >>>>>> >
> > > services...' > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Sorry, I did not mention this earlier. > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> This is all what I wanted to say about SOA and Buz. > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> - Michael > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > -----
Original Message ----- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > From: "Lublinsky, Boris" > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
To: "Mike Poulin" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > >
>>>>>> Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
[soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > > >
business] > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Date: Fri, 25 Sep 2009 08:04:35
-0500 > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> I tend to agree with Mike/jeff > > >
>>>>>> > > > > See
below > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
-----Original Message----- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > >
>>>>>> > > > > Sent:
Friday, September 25, 2009 5:15 AM > > >
>>>>>> > > > > To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > >
>>>>>> Wednesday [was: > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
[soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > > >
business] > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Importance: High > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> I believe service orientation has the enormous > > >
potential to > > > >>> >
become > > > >>>> >
> the > > > >>>>>>
> > > > basic business operational model
and SOA will be > > > >>>>>> the basis
of > > > the > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Business Architecture. > >
> >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Since we do not have time for
this > > discussion now, let's > > > >>> >
return to > > > >>>> >
> our > > > >>>>>>
> > > > text. > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> B.L. Moreover, as I re read the text I am > > > realizing
more and > > > more > > > >>>> >
> that > > > >>>>>>
> > > > this is not so much about SOA
but mostly about > > > ESB. I am of > > >
>>> > course > > >
>>>>> > > > over >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> simplifying, but hopefully you got the jest. > > > We
managed to > > > >>> > leap
frog > > > >>>>>> >
> > > business architecture and servicizing
the > > > >>>>>> enterprise and jump >
> > >>>> > >
directly > > > >>>>>> >
> > > into the issues of service
interaction - > > > ecosystem. This is > > >
fine, > > > >>>> > >
but > > > >>>>>> >
> > > who is going to live in this
wonderful ecosystem. > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> The only thing I hope to set in the RA > > > standard is an
open > > > >>> > door
to > > > >>>> > >
the > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Business opportunity of SOA instead
of > > locking it in IT. > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > This
means I vote for enough 'ambiguity' in > > the text that >
> > would > > > >>>> >
> allow > > >
>>>>>> > > > > anybody
to go with SOA in both - technical > > and business - > >
> >>>> > > directions, >
> > >>>>> > > >
if > > > >>>>>> >
> > > needed. > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> B.L. Fair enough. Lets create the door, but > > > may be,
just may > > > >>> > be
open > > > >>>>> >
> > it > > >
>>>>>> > > > > up
slightly for the next review. This is why > > I think, the >
> > >>> > text under > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
discussion, does not belong in the > > ecosystem, but
rather > > > >>> > above
it. > > > >>>> > >
We > > > >>>>>> >
> > > talk about business/IT alignment and
then > > > define ecosystem > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> The following is my modifications to the text > > > that
together > > > >>> > aim
only > > > >>>>> >
> > one > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
statement: "SOA is neither wholly IT nor wholly > > >
>>>>>> Business, but > > > >>> >
is of > > > >>>>> >
> > both > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
worlds." Particularly: > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > a) I
agree in full with: > > > >>>>>> >
> > > < > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
components and subsystems. They must be > > understood
within > > > their > > > >>>>> >
> > context > > >
>>>>>> > > > > or
environment; particularly, when there are many > > >
>>> > interactions among > >
> >>>>> > > > the >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> parts. For example, a biological ecosystem is a > > >
>>>>>> self-sustaining > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
association of plants, animals, and the > > > physical
environment > > > in > > > >>>> >
> which > > >
>>>>>> > > > > they
live. Understanding an ecosystem often > > requires this >
> > >>> > holistic > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
perspective of the system and its environment > > >
>>>>>> rather than one > > > >>>>
> > focusing > > >
>>>>>> > > > > on the
system's individual parts.>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> b) I DISagree with << The SOA Ecosystem > > described in
this > > > >>> >
document > > > >>>>> >
> > must > > >
>>>>>> > > > > be
understood in terms of its support of > > > business
services, > > > >>> > which
is > > > >>>>> > >
> its > > > >>>>>> >
> > > environment.>> > >
> >>>>>> > > > > My
proposal is this: > > > >>>>>> >
> > > << The SOA Ecosystem described
in this document must be > > > >>> >
understood > > > >>>> >
> in > > > >>>>>>
> > > > terms of its support of business
services.>> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > B.L.
See comment above > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > c) I
DISagree with << Business services > > provide
business > > > >>>> >
> functionality > > >
>>>>>> > > > > in
pursuit of the business outcome; while SOA services > > >
provide IT > > > >>>>>> >
> > > artifacts that facilitate
connectivity of > > > >>>>>> functional units
to > > > >>>> > >
realize > > > >>>>>> >
> > > and support the business services.
Therefore, > > > SOA is neither > > > >>>
> wholly > > > >>>> >
> IT > > > >>>>>>
> > > > nor wholly Business, but is of
both worlds. >> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > My proposal is this: > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
< > > > >>>>>> >
> > > outcome, together with its
technical > > > realization and support > > >
>>>> > > provided > >
> >>>>> > > > by >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Information Technology. Therefore, SOA is > > > neither
wholly IT > > > nor > > > >>>> >
> wholly > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
Business, but is of both worlds.>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> B.L. How about: > > > >>>>>> >
> > > << SOA is neither wholly IT nor
wholly > > > Business, but is of > > > both >
> > >>>>> > > >
worlds. > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Without involvement of the business,
defining service > > > >>> >
functionality > > >
>>>>>> > > > > based
on the enterprise business model and > > > aligned with
the > > > >>>> > >
enterprise > > > >>>>>> >
> > > business processes, SOA can't fulfill
the promise of > > > business/IT > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
alignment and support for flexible, process-driven > > >
enterprise. > > > >>>> >
> Without > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
involvement of IT, implementing SOA > > ecosystem,
supporting > > > >>> >
flexible > > > >>>>>>
> > > > service deployment,
interactions, monitoring > > > and management > > >
SOA > > > >>>> > >
can't > > > >>>>>> >
> > > fulfill the promise of scalable,
maintainable IT.>> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > d) I
DISagree with << Business needs drive the > > >
>>>>>> development of > > > >>>>
> > services > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
delivered through IT, which provides the > > capability
that > > > >>> >
satisfies > > > >>>>>
> > > those > > >
>>>>>> > > > > needs.
This is the business value of SOA.>> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > My
proposal is: > > > >>>>>> >
> > > << Business needs to drive the
development of > > > >>>>>> services,
which > > > >>>> > >
provides > > > >>>>>> >
> > > the capability that satisfies those
needs. This is the > > > business > > >
>>>> > > value > > >
>>>>> > > > of > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
SOA.>> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > or > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
<< Business needs to drive the development of services > >
> delivered > > > >>>>> >
> > through > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
Business and IT, which provides the capability > > >
>>>>>> that satisfies > > > >>> >
those > > > >>>>>>
> > > > needs. This is the business
value of SOA.>> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> Regards, > > > >>>>>> >
> > > - Michael > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> ----- Original Message ----- > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" To: "Mike Poulin" , > > >
"Lublinsky, > > > >>>>> >
> > Boris" > > >
>>>>>> > > > > , rexb@starbourne.com > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
[soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp between IT and > > >
business] > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 19:30:41
-0500 > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Mike: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > We are trying to get to the same
concept, > > > but really what > > > >>>
> is being > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> discussed is a cultural paradigm shift. In > > > my view,
the > > > >>> >
execution > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> context is the technical context within > > > which the
service > > > >>>> > >
components > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > exist and within in which they
are executed > > > as enablers > > > and >
> > >>>> > > support >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> for > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > the process. The service
components are > > the parts and > > > >>>>
> > subassemblies. > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> The process flow, which is part of the > > > execution
context, > > > as > > > >>>> >
> defined > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
by > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > the orchestration or
choreography (both > > of which have > > >
business > > > >>>> >
> rules > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> engines to ensure that policies/standards/business > > >
>>> > rules/etc. are > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> followed). > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Business process modeling as instantiated by > > >
>>>>>>> the assembled > > > >>>
> of the > > > >>>>>
> > > SOA > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> service components, with the associated > > business
rule, > > > >>> > links
the > > > >>>>>> >
> > > system > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> to the business processes. Provided that > > the
business > > > processes > > > >>>>>
> > > serve > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> the goals or objectives or the business > > > (that is
provides > > > >>> > value
to > > > >>>>> > >
> the > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > business) then the tools as
instantiated in the SOA > > > service > > >
>>>>> > > >
multiplies > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > the effectiveness of the
process. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> The cultural shift involves the fact that > > > when
business > > > >>> >
challenges > > > >>>>>
> > > or > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> opportunities arise, the business processes and SOA > > >
supporting > > > >>>>>> >
> > > services > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> can meet those challenge because SOA enable > > >
>>>>>>> agile systems. > > > I > >
> >>>> > > define > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > agility as "successful response to > > > unexpected
challenges > > > and > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> opportunities." BTW, this is the definition > > >
>>>>>>> of the Agility > > > >>>
> Forum > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
(circa > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > 1990) associated with Lehigh
University (that > > > >>>>>>> is Nagel
and > > > his > > > >>>> >
> group > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> that wrote the book on the agile > > > enterprise).
Currently, > > > the > > > >>>>>>
> > > > monolithic > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> architecture of most ERP-like systems do not allow > > >
agility, > > > >>> >
while > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > functional architecture
place emphasis on > > > optimizing for > > >
the > > > >>>>> > >
> function; > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > creating silos. There is an
axiom in > > > Systems Engineering > > >
that > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > optimizing the subsystems,
sub-optimizes > > > the system. SOA > > >
>>> > enables > > >
>>>>> > > > both >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > optimization and agility of the system, but requires >
> > mapping of > > > >>>> >
> the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> system to the organization's processes as the price > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > I could and have said a great
deal more, > > > but I think that > > > is >
> > >>>> > > enough. >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > The linkage is there for anyone to get the > > >
maximum value > > > out of > > > >>>>
> > the > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
SOA > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > and both the business processes
and the composite > > > applications > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
(process > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > assembled service components???)
or > > > whatever operating in > > > the >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> execution > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > context, must enable and support
the > > processes. As the > > > >>> >
processes > > > >>>>>>
> > > > change > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> in response to challenges and > > opportunities, both
the > > > processes > > > >>>> >
> and > > > >>>>>>
> > > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> composite application must respond quickly and > > >
>>> > successfully. This > >
> >>>> > > is > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> not the way it is done now, and that is the cultural > > >
change > > > >>> >
that > > > >>>> >
> is > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> needed. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 7:18 PM > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Lublinsky, Boris; > > >
>>> > rexb@starbourne.com > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT
and > > > >>> >
business] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Robert, > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > as we know SOA defines Execution
Context. > > > Since we never > > > >>>
> defined > > > >>>>>
> > > what > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
it > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > includes, I suggest (and promote
this > > opinion) that EC > > > includes > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
Business > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > EC and Technical EC. Business
services > > cannot be 'the > > > >>> >
environment > > > >>>> >
> of > > > >>>>>>
> > > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> SOA Ecosystem' because it is included into > > > SOA.
Business > > > EC > > > >>>> >
> defines > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> business execution policies and Technical EC defines > > >
technical > > > >>>>>> >
> > > execution > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> policies. SOA Ecosystem comprises both business and > > >
technical > > > >>>>> >
> > realms. > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Phrase "while SOA services
provide IT artifacts that > > > facilitate > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> connectivity of functional units to realize > > > and
support > > > the > > > >>>> >
> business > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> services."" has a problem because SOA > > service does
not > > > >>> >
necessary > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> "facilitate connectivity of functional units". For > > >
instance,a > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > self-contained stand-alone
business > > technical service > > > >>> >
realises its > > > >>>>>
> > > own > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> business function or feature w/o joining with other > > >
"functional > > > >>>>>> >
> > > units". > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Plus, SOA Service may or may not contain any > > >
>>>>>>> IT artefacts. > > > Time >
> > >>>> > > when >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> SOA > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > was considered a pure technical
thing is > > gone (and for > > > good). > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > I agree with you on "The value
of IT is the > > > same as any > > > other >
> > >>>> > > tool". >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > This is why I think that statement " > > >
Business needs drive > > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> development of services delivered through IT, which > > >
>>> > provides the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> capability that satisfies those needs. This is the > > >
business > > > >>> >
value > > > >>>> >
> of > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> SOA" requires corrections. Development of > > > services is
not > > > >>>> > >
necessary > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > delivered through IT, it may be
purely > > manual business > > > >>> >
service and > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
many > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > services of such nature
exist. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Based on my discussion in several Business > > >
Architecture > > > >>> >
groups on > > > >>>>>
> > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Web, any business process in Business may > > > be defined
as > > > >>> >
business > > > >>>>>>
> > > > service > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> with or without technical component. > > >
>>>>>>> Implementation of the > > >
>>>> > > business > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > service, as we know, is not that important for > > >
>>>>>>> service-oriented > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Architecture. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> If we state that SOA positions BETWEEN > > >
>>>>>>> Business and IT, we > > >
>>> > MAY NOT > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> attribute it to IT only and confront it > > > with the
business > > > >>> >
service. > > > >>>>>>
> > > > This > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> is illogical. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> - Michael > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> ----- Original Message ----- > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> From: "Ellinger, Robert S (IS)" > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> To: "Lublinsky, Boris" , rexb@starbourne.com > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > Cc: "Laskey, Ken" , mpoulin@usa.com, > > >
>>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT
and > > > >>> >
business] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Date: Thu, 24 Sep 2009 10:19:49 -0500 > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> See below > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> -----Original Message----- > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> From: Lublinsky, Boris > > > >>>>>>>
[mailto:boris.lublinsky@navteq.com] >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:58 AM > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); rexb@starbourne.com; > >
> >>> > Lublinsky, Boris > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT
and > > > >>> >
business] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > I have no idea what this
means: > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> "The SOA Ecosystem described in this > > document must
be > > > >>> >
understood > > > >>>> >
> in > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> terms of its support of business services, > > > which is
its > > > >>>>> > >
> environment." > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> What is which environment? > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Business services are the environment of the SOA > > >
Ecosystem. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Also: > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > " Business services provide
business > > functionality in > > > >>> >
pursuit of > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> business outcome; while SOA services > > > provide IT
artifacts > > > that > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> facilitate connectivity of functional units > > >
>>>>>>> to realize and > > > >>>
> support > > > >>>>>
> > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> business services." > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> SOA services is a complete misnomer. > > > Infrastructure I
can > > > >>> > buy,
but > > > >>>>> > >
> SOA > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > services? > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> I disagree with that. The infrastructure > > > provides
nothing > > > >>> >
except > > > >>>> >
> an > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> operating context. Only when SOA Service > > (which in
my > > > >>>> > >
understanding > > > >>>>> >
> > is > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> a composite application with contractual > >
obligations) > > > >>> >
provide any > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
value > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > to the customer. > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > And finally: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> " Business needs drive the development of services > > >
delivered > > > >>>> >
> through > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
IT, > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > which provides the capability
that > > > satisfies those needs. > > > >>>
> This is > > > >>>>>
> > > the > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> business value of SOA." > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> This has several problems: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> 1. Business is concerned only with business > > > services
and > > > drives > > > >>>>> >
> > their > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> design, not development 2. What is the > > business
value? > > > What > > > >>> >
does > > > >>>>> >
> > this > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> points to? > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> My understanding of the term development is that it > > >
includes > > > >>>> >
> design, > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
but > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > if you want to change it...The
value of IT > > > is the same as > > > any >
> > >>>> > > other >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > tool, to multiple the value of the process. > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Adam Smith pointed this out in Chapter 1 of > > > Book 1 of
the > > > >>> >
Wealth > > > >>>> >
> of > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Nations. This is a point lost on IT as this comment > > >
>>> > demonstrates. > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > I think we are
digressing. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> I hope not. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > -----Original
Message----- > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > From: Ellinger, Robert S
(IS) > > > >>>>>>> [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:46 AM > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> To: rexb@starbourne.com;
Lublinsky, Boris > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: RE: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT
and > > > >>> >
business] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Hi: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Please try this edit. >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Bob > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > -----Original
Message----- > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 10:34 AM > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> To: Lublinsky, Boris > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > Cc: Ellinger, Robert S
(IS); Laskey, Ken; > > > >>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > > >
for Wednesday > > > [was: > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT
and > > > >>> >
business] > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Very minor grammar correction,
Boris, > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> I'm just a nit picker. > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> ;) > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Rex > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Lublinsky, Boris wrote: >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > I haven't seen people discussing my > > grammar
so much > > > >>> > lately.
I am > > > >>>>>> >
> > > doing > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > something wrong
sorry. > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > I am fine with
managing > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > -----Original Message----- > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 9:07 AM > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > To: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > Cc: Lublinsky, Boris; Laskey, Ken; > > >
>>>>>>>> mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
> > > > > > >>>>> >
> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > Subject: Re: [soa-rm-ra] intro discussion > >
> >>>>>>>> for Wednesday > > >
[was: > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA
on the cusp > > > between IT and > > > >>>
> business] > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > Hi Folks, > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > I'm being technically
challenged at > > the moment with > > > remote >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > participation > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > in overlapping meetings the
latter of which isn't > > > starting > > >
>>>>>> > > > > and
> > the former of which appears to have > > >
>>>>>> ended early while > > > I > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
dropped > > off to attend the latter.Sheseh! > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > Here's how I would correct
Boris's > > grammar with one > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
word-substitution: > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > I > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > don't want the concept of "orchestration" being > > >
confused with > > > >>>> >
> the > > > >>>>>>
> > > > use > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> of > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > "orchestrating" so I am changing that > > to
"managing" > > > which we > > > >>>>
> > don't > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> spend > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > much attention on in the RAF yet .(I just > > >
>>>>>>>> want to avoid > > >
>>> > anyone > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
asking > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > if > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > we mean that "all business
services must > > > be delivered > > > via >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > orchestration."): > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > Business drives the
definition of > > business services > > >
aligned > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > with > enterprise business
functionality > > and business > > >
>>>>> > > > processes, >
> > managing execution of these > > > services, while
IT > > > >>>>> > >
> defines > > > infrastructure services, > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > providing support across a
wide range of business > > > services > > >
>>>>>> > > > > and
> > implements both types of services. Such > > >
>>>>>> collaboration > > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > allows >
> stronger communications between both, > > > by creating
> > > > >>>>> >
> > one-to-one > > mapping between
business and IT artifacts. > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > Regardless, since it is
clear that Bob did > > > >>>>>>>> not
actually > > > >>>>> >
> > pick > up > > Boris's additions
and so didn't drop > > > >>>>> them, and
Ken > > > >>>>> > >
> had one > more > > addition he was considering, > >
> >>>>> could we ask Ken > > >
>>>>> > > > to correct >
> Boris's > grammar, fold in Bob's > > >
>>>>> slight rewording > > > >>>>>
> > > and add his > > piece? Then,
> perhaps Jeff > > and/or Jim could > > >
make > > > >>>>> >
> > the crisp > > differentiation >
between business > > > services and > > >
SOA > > > >>>>> > >
> services or > > between business > services and IT >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > services > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > Cheers, > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > Rex > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > Ellinger, Robert S (IS) wrote: > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Didn't intend to drop
Boris's > > additions...must of > > > missed
> > > > >>>>> >
> > them. > I >> thought we were to
start from where > > > you left off, > > >
so > > > >>>>>> >
> > > that is > >> what I >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > did. > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> Sorry Boris...Perhaps we were working > > >
concurrently > > > and the > > >
>>>>> > > > material >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > crossed. > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> Bob > >
> >>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> -----Original Message----- > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Sent: Thursday,
September 24, 2009 1:10 AM > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> To: Lublinsky, Boris > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> Cc: Ellinger, Robert S (IS); Laskey, Ken; > >
> mpoulin@usa.com; > >
> >>>>>>>>> > >
> > >> > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Subject: Re:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > > Wednesday > >
> >>> > [was: > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > > > cusp
between IT > > > and > > > >>>> >
> business] > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> My task was to get
the work rolling. > > I have minor > > > >>>
> quibbles with > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > correct > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> English grammar in
Boris's > > additions, and I agree > > > with >
> > >>>>> > > > Jeff
> > that >> the distinction between > > > "business
service' and > > > >>>>> >
> > "SOA > > service" >> needs to
be made. In general I think > > > simpler > > >
>>>>> > > > is > >
better, but as >> long as the grammar is > > > corrected,
I'd > > > be > > > >>>>> >
> > fine > > with Boris's >>
additions. I don't have > > > any problems > > >
>>>>> > > > with Bob's >
> minor rewording, >> but i don't see why he > > >
dropped > > > >>>>> >
> > Boris's > > additions.. > >
> >>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> I'll look at it again in the morning. > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> Cheers, >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Rex > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> Lublinsky, Boris
wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> You through away all changes that > >
> were suggested > > > after this > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
initial > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> one? > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> -----Original Message----- > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> From: Ellinger, Robert S (IS) > > >
>>> > [mailto:robert.ellinger@ngc.com] >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday,
September 23, 2009 6:41 PM > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Subject: RE:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > > Wednesday > >
> >>> > [was: > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > >
> cusp between IT > > > and > > >
>>>> > > business] > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> I'd recommend some minor rewording... >
> > >>>>>>>>>> -----Original >
> > >>>> > >
Message----- > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> From: Rex Brooks
[mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Sent: Wednesday,
September 23, 2009 1:16 PM > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> To: rexb@starbourne.com > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Cc: Laskey, Ken; mpoulin@usa.com; > > >
>>>> > > soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Subject: Re:
[soa-rm-ra] intro discussion for > > > Wednesday > >
> >>> > [was: > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> [soa-rm-ra] positioning SOA on the > >
> cusp between IT > > > and > > >
>>>> > > business] > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> First pass at the Section 1.2 as > > an
additional > > > paragraph > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> after >>> the first paragraph. I include the first >
> > paragraph > > > >>>>> >
> > and > > the >>> start of
the current second > > > paragraph here for > > >
>>>>> > > > the > >
context: > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> 1.2 Service Oriented Archtecture - > >
An Ecosystem > > > Perspective > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Many systems cannot be understood by a
simple > > > decomposition > > > >>>>
> > into > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > parts > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> and subsystems -- in particular when >
> > >>>>>>>>>> there are many >
> > >>> > > > > >>>>>> >
> > > interactions between the parts. For
example, a > > > >>>>>> biological
>>> > > > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
ecosystem is a self-sustaining association of plants, > > >
animals, > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> and the hysical
environment in > > which they live. > > >
>>>>> > > > Undestanding
> > an >>> ecosystem often > > requires a
holistic > > > >>>>> >
> > perspective rather > > than one
>>> focusing on the > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> system's individual parts. > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> The SOA Ecosystem described in this
document > > > occupies the > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > >>> > boundary between Business and IT. > >
It is neither > > > wholly IT > > >
>>>>>> > > > > nor
>>> > wholly Business, > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> but is of both worlds. Neither > >
Business nor IT > > > >>> >
completely own, > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> govern > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. Both sets
of > > > concerns must > > >
>>>>>> > > > > be >
>>> accommodated for the SOA Ecosystem to > > > fulfill
its > > > > >>>>> >
> > purposes. > >>>
Business > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> needs drive the development of > > >
services delivered > > > through > > >
>>>>>> > > > > IT,
> >>> providing the capability that satisfies those > >
> needs. > > > >>>>>> >
> > > This is > >>> the
business value of SOA. > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> From a holistic perspective, a > > >
SOA-based system is > > > a > > > >
>>>>> > > > network > of
>>> independent services, machines, > > > the people
who > > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > operate, > affect, >>> use and
govern those > > > services as well as > > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > ... > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Cheers, > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Rex > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Rex Brooks wrote: > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> Hi Ken,
Everyone, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> I believe that
the email you are > > > looking for is > > >
your > > > >>> > reply
to > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Frank: > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/soa-rm-ra/email/archives >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> / > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>
200906/msg00012.html > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> This is what
Frank Wrote Jun 14, > > > 2009, at 7:12 > > >
PM: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> "I sympathize
with the sentiment > > > behind this. We > > >
have > > > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > >>>> > > consistently
identified SOA as being at the > > > boundary > > >
>>>>> > > > between >
>>>> > business and IT. It > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> is > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> neither wholly
IT nor wholly > > > business but is of > > >
both > > > >>> >
worlds. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> That represents
potentially one of > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> SOA's greatest > >
> >>>>> > > >
opportunities; > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > and > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> the source of
its weaknesses: > > > neither business > > > nor IT
can > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > completely > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> own/grok
SOA. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> Frank" >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> The email
referenced above > > > contains the most or > > >
all of the > > > >>>>> >
> > thread > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> "Are > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> we being
ignored?" > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> I'm not sure we
would help > > > ourselves if we say > > > more
than > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > "The >>>> SOA
Ecosystem described in this document > > > occupies > >
> >>>>> > > > the >
> boundary >>>> between Business and IT. > > It is
neither > > > >>>>> >
> > wholly IT > > nor wholly
>>>> Business, but is > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> of both worlds.
Neither Business nor IT > > > completely own, > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> govern >>>> and manage this SOA Ecosystem. > >
> Both sets of > > > >>>>> >
> > concerns > > MUST be > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>> > > >
> > > accommodated > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> for the SOA
Ecosystem to fulfill > > > its purposes." > > >
>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> Cheers, >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> Rex >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> Laskey, Ken
wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> This is a
reminder that this week we are > > > scheduled to > >
> >>>> > > discuss > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > adding > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> the text on
the overlap of SOA > > > and business. > > > Below
is > > > >>> > text >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > suggested > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> by Michael
Poulin and there is > > > another email > > >
from > > > >>> > Boris
with > > > >>>> > >
a > > > >>>>>> >
> > > lot > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> of >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> idea that
would need to be condensed and > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > added/substituted/combined. > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> Let's
get the discussion far > > > enough along that > > >
we can > > > >>> >
bring > > > >>>>> >
> > this > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> to > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> (close
to) closure by the end of > > > Wednesday's > > >
call. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> I remember
there was an email > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> where Frank wrote >
> > something > > > >>>> >
> very > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > crisp > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> on this
subject that I replied was > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> exactly what > >
> we > > > >>> > needed
to > > > >>>>>> >
> > > say. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
Unfortunately, I have no idea > > > when that email > >
> thread > > > >>>> >
> occurred. > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
If > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> someone
could find it, I think > > > it would be a > > >
good > > > >>>> > >
contribution > > > >>>>>> >
> > > to > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
discussion. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Back to
Mike's suggested text, > > > two immediate > > >
things > > > >>> > come
to > > > >>>>>> >
> > > mind. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 1. Section
1.4 is a discussion of > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> the views and > >
> this > > > >>> > is
not > > > >>>> > >
a > > > >>>>>> >
> > > view > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> to >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> be added as
1.4.4. I think it fits after > > > section 1.2, > >
> >>>> > > possibly >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> as > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> another
short section. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 2. It is
not obvious to me what > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> the phrase "the >
> > > > > > >>>>> >
> > similarity > of >>>>>
the principles of the > > Value Networks > > > >
>>>>> > > > business model"
> means. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Ken >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
------ > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Dr. Kenneth
Laskey > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >>>>> MITRE
Corporation, M/S H305 phone: > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> 703-983-7934 > >
> >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 7515
Colshire Drive fax: > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
703-983-1379 > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> McLean VA
22102-7508 > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
-----Original Message----- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com > > > [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com] > > >
Sent: > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>
> > > >>>>> > Thursday,
September 10, 2009 11:31 AM > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> To: soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Subject:
[soa-rm-ra] > > positioning SOA on the > > >
cusp > > > >>> > between
IT > > > >>>>> > >
> and > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > business > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Hi
Folks, > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> I join
Francis and Boris in > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> suggestion that SOA >
> > RA's > > > >>>>>> >
> > > Introduction > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> would
benefit from adding a couple of > > > paragraphs on the >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> business
aspects of SOA positioned across > > > Business and > >
> >>>>> > > > IT. >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> In the
previous message I > > > composed a few words > > >
for a > > > >>> >
small > > > >>>>>>
> > > > section > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> on >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> this topic
and propose to > > > discuss them as an > > >
initial > > > >>> >
draft > > > >>>>>>
> > > > during > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> next (or
following) Telecom. > > > Proposed text may > > >
be > > > >>> > found
in > > > >>>> > >
the > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > middle > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> of this
message chain. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Any
suggestions? > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> -
Michael > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Subject:
RE: todos for PR2 > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> From: mpoulin@usa.com To: > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org >
> > >>>> > > Date: >
> > >>>>> > > >
8 > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > Sep > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 2009
16:21:26 -0000 > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
"positioning SOA on the cusp > > between IT and > > >
business" is > > > >>>> >
> what > > > >>>>>
> > > I > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> write > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> a lot for
last few months. So, let > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> me propose a > >
> >>> > strawman for > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
this > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> text: > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 1.4.4
Business Value of the > > > Service Oriented > > >
Architecture > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> A Service
Oriented Architecture realizes > > > principles > >
> >>> > of the > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
concept > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> of >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> service
orientation in the sphere of > > > architecture. The >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > architecture > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> in the
organisation comprises > > both business > > >
>>>>> > > > architecture
> > and >>>>> technical architecture > > >
>>>>> of the systems > > > >>>>>
> > > [ref. to TOGAF > > 9.0].
>>>>> While SOA-based > > > systems
address > > > >>>>> >
> > aspects of the > > technical
>>>>> architecture, > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > the > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> similarity
of the principles of the Value > > > Networks > > >
>>> > business > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
model > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > and > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> SOA allows
us to see SOA as a > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> conceptual bridge >
> > between > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> corporate
Business and IT. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Noticed
similarity opens up new > > > possibilities > > >
for > > > >>> >
Business > > > >>>> >
> and > > > >>>>>>
> > > > IT > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > to > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> construct
service-oriented > > customer-centric > > >
convergent > > > >>>>> >
> > solutions > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > for > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> business
problems. Service > > > orientation enables > > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > operational > >>>>> and
technical flexibility, > > > >>>>> which
contributes > > > >>>>>> >
> > > to business > >>>>>
efficiency the > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> great deal.
The Service > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> Orientation concept
has > > > the > > > > > >>>>>
> > > potential >>>>> not
only to align IT with > > > Business, but also to > >
> > > > > >>>>>> >
> > > align the >>>>>
entire > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > company > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> with the
market dynamics. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> If the
ideas in this writing are > > > acceptable, I > > >
will > > > >>> > work
on > > > >>>>> > >
> the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> wording. >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - Michael
Poulin > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> From:
Francis McCabe To: > > > >>> >
"soa-rm-ra@lists.oasis-open.org
RA" > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Date: Thu,
3 Sep 2009 19:24:08 -0700 > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 1. As Boris
alluded to, I think that a > > > paragraph or two > >
> >>>>>> > > > > in
> >>>>> the introduction positioning SOA on the
cusp > > > between > > > >>>>>>
> > > > IT and > >>>>>
business could be very > > useful. It is also > > >
pretty > > > >>>>>> >
> > > faithful > to >>>>>
the RAF! > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 2. The
concept of interaction in the RM > > > referred >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > *everything* >>>>> involved
in interacting with > > > services. For > > >
the > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > RA we have to > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > unpack > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> that some.
This is the foundation for the > > > multi-leveled > >
> >>>>> > > >
concept > > > >>>>>> >
> > > of > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> joint
action. This should go in > > > Section 3.1. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 3. I think
that Danny's security > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> diagram should > >
> be > > > > >>>>> >
> > updated > >>>>> and
incorporated. > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 4. The
trust and willingness > > > stuff should go > > >
in. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> 5. It would
be good if we could > > > go through the > > >
text > > > >>> >
bolding > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> defined > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
concepts. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>
> > > > >
>>>>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> - >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>>
----------- > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> [Date Prev]
| [Thread Prev] | > > > [Thread Next] | > > >
[Date > > > >>> > Next]
-- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > [Date > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> Index] |
[Thread Index] | [List Home] > > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> -- > >
> >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Rex Brooks >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> President,
CEO > > > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> Starbourne
Communications Design > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Berkeley, CA 94702 > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> Tel: 510-898-0670 > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > > >>>
> > > >
-------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >>> - To unsubscribe
from this mail > > list, you must > > > leave
the > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > OASIS >>> TC that
generates this mail. Follow > > > >>>>>>>
this link to > > > >>>>> >
> > all > > your TCs >>> in
OASIS > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> at: > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> >
> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> The information contained in this > >
> >>>>>>>>>> communication may > >
> be > > > >>>>>> >
> > > CONFIDENTIAL > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> and is intended only for the use of > > > the
recipient(s) > > > named > > > >>>> >
> above. > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
If > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> you are not the intended recipient, > > > you
are hereby > > > >>>>> >
> > notified > > that >> any
dissemination, > > > >>>>> distribution, or
copying > > > >>>>> >
> > of this >> > > communication,
or any > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > of > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> its contents, is strictly > > prohibited. If you
have > > > received > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> this >> communication in error, please > > > notify
the sender > > > and > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
>> > > delete/destroy > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > the > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> original message and
any copy of it from your > > > computer > > >
>>> > or paper > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> files. > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>>> > >
> > > >>> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> -- > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> Rex Brooks >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> President, CEO >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Starbourne
Communications Design > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> GeoAddress: 1361-A
Addison > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Berkeley, CA
94702 > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> Tel:
510-898-0670 > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>> > > > >
> >>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> To unsubscribe from
this mail list, > > > you must leave > > >
the > > > >>>>> > >
> OASIS > > TC >> that generates this mail. Follow >
> > this link to > > > all > > >
>>>>> > > > your > TCs
> in >> OASIS at: > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.ph >
> > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> p > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>>> >
> > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>>> > > >
> > >> > > > >>>>>>>>>
> > > > > >> > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>>> >
> > > > > > > >
>>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > -- > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Rex Brooks > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > President, CEO > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Starbourne Communications Design > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> Berkeley, CA 94702 > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > Tel: 510-898-0670 > >
> >>>>>>> > > >
> > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > The information contained in
this > > communication may be > > > >>>>
> > CONFIDENTIAL > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
and > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > is intended only for the use of
the > > recipient(s) named > > > >>> >
above. If > > > >>>> >
> you > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> are not the intended recipient, you are > > > hereby
notified > > > >>> > that
any > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > dissemination, distribution, or
copying of this > > > >>> >
communication, or > > >
>>>>> > > > any > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
of > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > its contents, is strictly
prohibited. If you > > > >>>>>>> have
received > > > this > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> communication in error, please notify the sender and > > >
>>>> > > delete/destroy >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> the > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > original message and any copy of
it from > > > your computer or > > > paper >
> > >>>>> > > >
files. > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>
> > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > To unsubscribe from this mail list, you > > must
leave the > > > OASIS TC > > > >>>> >
> that > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> generates this mail. Follow this link to > > > all your TCs
in > > > >>> > OASIS
at: > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> -- > > > >>>>>>> >
> > > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% >
> > >>>>>>> > >
> > > 20> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>>> > > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> -- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > An Excellent Credit Score is
750 > > > >>>>>> >
> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps! > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > > > leave
the OASIS > > > >>> > TC
that > > > >>>>>> >
> > > generates this mail. Follow this link
to all > > your TCs in > > > >>> >
OASIS at: > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> The information contained in this communication may be > >
> >>> > CONFIDENTIAL > >
> >>>>>> > > > >
and is intended only for the use of the > > > recipient(s)
named > > > above. > > > >>>>>>
> > > > If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby > > > >>> >
notified that > > >
>>>>>> > > > > any
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > > >
>>> > communication, > > >
>>>>>> > > > > or any
of its contents, is strictly > > > prohibited. If you
have > > > >>>>>> >
> > > received this communication in error,
please notify the > > > >>> >
sender and > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
delete/destroy the original message and any > > > copy of it
from > > > your > > > >>>>>> >
> > > computer or paper files. > >
> >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > >>>>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > > > leave
the OASIS > > > >>> > TC
that > > > >>>>>> >
> > > generates this mail. Follow this link
to all > > your TCs in > > > >>> >
OASIS at: > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >
>>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > >
-- > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>>> > > > > An
Excellent Credit Score is 750 > > > >>>>>>
> > > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps! > > > >>>>>> >
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > > <http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;216722518;39159097;q?http://www.freecredi >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> > >
> treport.com/pm/default.aspx?pagetypeid=homepage62&sc=669615&bcd=FOOTER5% >
> > >>>>>> > > >
> 20> > > > >>>>>> >
> > > << bus and tech 2.doc
>> > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>>>> > > > >
> > >>>>> > > >
-- > > > >>>>> > >
> An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > > > >>>>>
> > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps! > > > >>>>> >
> > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > >
>>>>> > > > > >
> >>> > > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>>>> > > > To
unsubscribe from this mail list, you must > > > leave the OASIS
TC > > > >>> > that >
> > >>>>> > > >
generates this mail. Follow this link to all > > > your
TCs in OASIS > > > at: > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>>> > > > >
> >>>>> > > > >
> > >>>> > > > >
> >>>> > > > > >
>>>> > > -- > > >
>>>> > > An Excellent Credit Score
is 750 > > > >>>> > >
See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>>> >
> The information contained in this communication
may be > > > >>> >
CONFIDENTIAL and > > > >>>>
> > is intended only for the use of the
recipient(s) > > > named above. If > > >
you > > > >>>> > > are
not the intended recipient, you are hereby > > > notified that
any > > > >>>> > >
dissemination, distribution, or copying of this > > >
communication, or > > > >>> >
any of > > > >>>> >
> its contents, is strictly prohibited. If
you have > > > received this > > > >>>>
> > communication in error, please notify the
sender and > > > >>> >
delete/destroy the > > >
>>>> > > original message and any
copy of it from your > > computer or paper > > >
>>> > files. > > >
>>> > > > > >>>> >
> > > > >>> > >
> > >>> > > > > >>> >
-- > > > >>> >
An Excellent Credit Score is 750 > > >
>>> > See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps! > > > >>> > > > > >>>
> > > > >>> > > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >>> > To unsubscribe from this
mail list, you must leave the > > > OASIS TC that > >
> >>> > generates this mail.
Follow this link to all your TCs > > > in OASIS
at: > > > >>> > > > > >>> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >>> > > > > >>> > > >
> >>> > > > > >>> > -- > >
> >>> > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle
Bundle - > > > >>> > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE >
> > >>> > Twitter: duancechaos > > >
>>> > > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> -- > > > >> Rex
Brooks > > > >> President, CEO > > > >>
Starbourne Communications Design > > > >> GeoAddress:
1361-A Addison > > > >> Berkeley, CA 94702 > >
> >> Tel: 510-898-0670 > > > >> > > >
>> > > > >> > > > >> The
information contained in this communication may be > > >
>> CONFIDENTIAL and is intended only for the use of the > >
> >> recipient(s) named above. If you are not the
intended > > > >> recipient, you are hereby notified that
any dissemination, > > > >> distribution, or copying of
this communication, or any of its > > > >> contents, is
strictly prohibited. If you have received this > > >
>> communication in error, please notify the sender and > >
> >> delete/destroy the original message and any copy of it from
your > > > >> computer or paper files. > > >
>> > > > >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> > >> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the
OASIS TC that > > > >> generates this mail. Follow
this link to all your TCs in OASIS at: > > > >> https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > >> > > > >> > > > >
> > > > > > > -- > > An Excellent
Credit Score is 750 > > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! >
> > > > >
--------------------------------------------------------------------- >
> To unsubscribe from this mail list, you must leave the OASIS TC
that > > generates this mail. Follow this link to all your
TCs in OASIS at: > > https://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/portal/my_workgroups.php >
> > > > > > > -- > > Come to Adobe
MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle - > > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE >
> Twitter: duancechaos > > > >
> > > > -- > An Excellent Credit Score is
750 > See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps! > > > >
-- > Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle
- > http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE >
Twitter: duancechaos >
>
-- An Excellent
Credit Score is 750 See Yours in Just 2 Easy
Steps!
--
Come to Adobe MAX 2009 and sign up for the LiveCycle Bundle - http://max.adobe.com/sessions/livecycle/?sdid=EUQZE Twitter:
duancechaos
|