Re: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?

[john c hardin <johnchardin@comcast.net>]

OUCH. That hurts. But I loooove silk...

Duane Nickull wrote:
> John
> (aka "Meggan".  Hey - how you dress in private is none of our business  ;-)
> 
> Just joking!!
> 
> This is a good question.
> 
> The registry is one way that one could store semantics however semantics 
> are not required to be explicit and there are other models for sharing 
> information beside registry.  At the abstract level it represents a 
> facet of the model where the information available is meaningful.  
> Therefore, a registry will not be in the reference model as a normative, 
> core element.
> 
> We decided to add a non normative section to explain some of these 
> manifestations.  How one goes from "Data Model" to Messages, 
> Availability to Registry, Policy to on the wire security etc.
> 
> It would be great if you could hook up with the person with this section 
> and offer proof reading services.  Value your input.
> 
> Duane
> 
> 
> 
> 
> meggan hardin wrote:
> 
>> My assumptions (so far) about the central metadata concepts have been 
>> that the reg/rep holds this data. Are we delving to the level of 
>> defining specific types of resources / components that should be 
>> included in a major component such as the reg/rep? I think that the 
>> concept of storing semantic metadata as an independent integration 
>> reference point is important enough to be included in the RM.
>>
>> FWIW - Contivo terms the semantic metadata repository the "enterprise 
>> vocabulary"...
>>
>> john
>>
>> Smith, Martin wrote:
>>
>>> Violent agreement.
>>>  
>>> martin
>>> ________________________________
>>>
>>> From: Schuldt, Ron L [mailto:ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com]
>>> Sent: Fri 4/29/2005 6:39 PM
>>> To: Smith, Martin; Sharma, Sameer; Duane Nickull; 
>>> john@crossconnections.ws
>>> Cc: ebSOA OASIS TC; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sameer will correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that his intent was
>>> to include the notion of central metadata within a "Reference
>>> Architecture" not the Reference Model. Appendix B is the place where
>>> example use cases would be defined. I suspect that Sameer might be
>>> willing to submit an example use case.
>>>
>>> Ron Schuldt
>>> Senior Staff Systems Architect
>>> Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems
>>> 11757 W. Ken Caryl Ave.
>>> #F521 Mail Point DC5694
>>> Littleton, CO 80127
>>> 303-977-1414
>>> ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Smith, Martin [mailto:Martin.Smith@DHS.GOV]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:19 PM
>>> To: Sharma, Sameer; Duane Nickull; john@crossconnections.ws
>>> Cc: ebSOA OASIS TC; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?
>>>
>>>
>>> Sameer - -
>>>
>>> Let me practice being Matt <g>:
>>>
>>> The term " 'central' metadata" presumes a specific implementation
>>> strategy and should not be in the RM.  Perhaps "metadata associated with
>>> the service should be available in the environment."  Now in my example
>>> SOA for Appendix B, I'll probably show a UDDI services directory, or
>>> maybe a combo registry/repository that can in fact store all the
>>> description metadata.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Sharma, Sameer [mailto:sameer.sharma@lmco.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 2:16 PM
>>> To: Smith, Martin; Duane Nickull; john@crossconnections.ws
>>> Cc: ebSOA OASIS TC; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?
>>>
>>>
>>> My feeling is that some of what you are alluding to might be covered by
>>> UDDI,
>>> however as is happening in an instance of SOA deployment that I am
>>> involved
>>> in - UDDI by itself is not going to be sufficient to express all the
>>> metadata
>>> that is needed for a client to successfully and contextually interpret
>>> all
>>> that a Web Service does.
>>>
>>> My attempted solution is to capture this additional metadata by
>>> leveraging
>>> central metadata services of my enterprise. I guess what I am saying is
>>> that
>>> the concept of "central metadata" might be a valid candidate as a
>>> component of
>>> the Reference Architecture we are considering.
>>>
>>> Since I was unable to participate in the F2F, (due to some last minute
>>> commitments that I got called into), if this topic was discussed, please
>>> accept my apologies for bringing it up again.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> L
>>>   Sameer Sharma
>>>     Principal Applications Architect
>>>     Lockheed Martin Corporation
>>>     Chief Technology Office (CTO)
>>>     12506 Lake Underhill Road - MP 166
>>>     Orlando, FL-32825
>>>     Tel: (407) 306 5640
>>>     Fax:(407) 306 1392
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Smith, Martin [mailto:Martin.Smith@DHS.GOV]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 1:38 PM
>>> To: Duane Nickull; john@crossconnections.ws
>>> Cc: ebSOA OASIS TC; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?
>>>
>>> Folks - -
>>>
>>> On my way home from N'awlins Wed night, I had a thought on this
>>> discussion.
>>>
>>> I think we expect services in an SOA to be independent of the kind of
>>> shared contextual knowledge we usually presume within a local computing
>>> environment. We expect that the requesting service will be able to
>>> obtain all the info it needs to use the responding service successfully
>>> by processing the responding service's description metadata.  I do think
>>> this is a core characteristic of SOA services.
>>>
>>> I'm not suggesting we reinstate the use of the word "autonomous" as a
>>> handle for this concept since it demonstrably caused confusion at the
>>> f2f.  If we need a handle, perhaps "self-sufficient" or
>>> "self-documenting" or "introspective" (naaah - forget that one.)
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>>> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:43 PM
>>> To: john@crossconnections.ws
>>> Cc: ebSOA OASIS TC; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>> Subject: [soa-rm] Re: Autonomous Services?
>>>
>>> We discussed and the submitter withdrew the submission pending
>>> clarification on exactly what is meant by Autonomous nature WRT
>>> services.  It may be re-submitted and probably will however we do not
>>> have consensus on it at present.
>>>
>>> Duane
>>>
>>> john c hardin wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> Duane and SOA-RM group -
>>>> Can someone enlighten the members of the eb-soa group regarding a
>>>> description of Autonomous Services? Any resulting conversations from
>>>> the meetings this week, on the subject of Autonomous Services would be
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> good also.
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>> john
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> ***********
>>> Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
>>> Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/
>>> Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources  -
>>> http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
>>> ***********
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
> 

-- 
~~~~~~~~~
john c hardin
Chair, OASIS ebSOA Technical Committee
http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=ebsoa
313.279.1377 new *VONAGE* number
mailto:john@crossconnections.ws

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