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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Definition of business
But do we also need to cover
business: the goals expressed by an organization and the activities
undertaken to accomplish those goals
Ken
At 08:31 AM 5/11/2005, Peter F Brown wrote:
>Duane:
>
>I take Martin's point but there is a difference between the "business" as an
>organisational entity; and "business" as the work/mission that the entity
>undertakes. I would prefer "enterprise" or "organisation", but could
>livewith "business" provided there is a clear definition in the glossary as
>you suggest.
>
>If "business" it is to be, then I'd propose for the glossary:
>
>"Business: any organisation, enterprise or undertaking, whether for-profit,
>voluntary or governmental in nature, with a particular mission and
>structure"
>
>Peter
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
>Sent: 11 May 2005 04:24
>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Why do we need SOA? (proposal for Introduction text)
>
>Martin:
>
>Yes - I know in our current context it is implicitly understood however I do
>want to keep our focus a bit strict about this to ensure that when someone
>picks up this RM 5 years from now it is still pretty clear. If there is a
>term that is not necessary to use that may cast ambiguity, we should
>probably error on the side of safety.
>
>If this becomes as popular as the OSI stack, we have to strive to make sure
>that 10 years from now people don't discard it because it only applies to
>business.
>
>Perhaps we should define it in the glossary if we did keep it in.
>
>Duane
>
>
>
>
>Smith, Martin wrote:
>
> >Duane - - I wouldn't lose sleep over the term "business." We (in
>Government) use it all the time as synonymous with "mission". We talk about
>"business case", "business value", "business impact", "business owner" and
>"business process." It often is used to contrast with "non-business"
>functions or considerations like "support" or "infrastructure" or
>"administrative" or "compliance".
> >
> >Martin
> >
> >
> >
> >________________________________
> >
> >From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com]
> >Sent: Tue 5/10/2005 12:05 PM
> >Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> >Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Why do we need SOA? (proposal for Introduction
> >text)
> >
> >
> >
> >I would object to any statement or notion that made SOA only SOA in the
> >context of 'business', however I think I understand the intent of the
> >statement and agree. Business is one type of user. Department of
> >Homeland Security is not a business yet they ill have SOA (at least
> >Martin hasn't tried to sell me anything yet ;-)
> >
> >Perhaps we could re-state it as an IT need, written in a way that
> >speaks to business and government users. This is harder than it
> >appears and I failed at it miserably but would love to hear your guys take.
> >
> >Something like (but not) this:
> >
> >"SOA is an architectural model developed to enable those who build and
> >maintain IT systems to repurpose components rapidly for new
> >functionality. This enables them to respond quickly and in an
> >economically efficient manner to new requirements"
> >
> >Does that make sense?
> >
> >Duane
> >
> >Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Sally,
> >>
> >>I like your comment regarding SOA being a response for business, and I
> >>believe it is completely true. A general question for us: Since we are
> >>approaching SOA from the technical perspective (at least that is my
> >>understanding), wouldn't it be out of our scope to refer to the
> >>business aspects of SOA (i.e. that SOA encapsulates business services
> >>in....etc. etc.)?
> >>
> >>Joe
> >>
> >>Joseph Chiusano
> >>Booz Allen Hamilton
> >>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com <http://www.boozallen.com/>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >> From: Sally St. Amand [mailto:sallystamand@yahoo.com]
> >> Sent: Sunday, May 08, 2005 9:17 PM
> >> To: Smith, Martin; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] Why do we need SOA? (proposal for
> >> Introduction text)
> >>
> >> Martin
> >> I like your thoughts and agree that SOA is a response to the
> >> characteristics of the internet that you list. I also think SOA is
> >> a response for business.
> >> We need to answer your question, otherwise SOA will be ( or is
> >> already ) viewed as a marketing ploy
> >> See additional thoughts below.
> >> Sally
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "Smith, Martin" <Martin.Smith@DHS.GOV> wrote:
> >>
> >> List - -
> >>
> >> I sent essentially this same message in the thread "[soa-rm]
> >> When Is An SOA Really An SOA?" a while back, but got no
> >> response. Thought I'd try again to see if no-one noticed it or
> >> no-one liked it . . .
> >>
> >> I'm proposing we include something like the following in the
> >> Introduction. As several people have observed, we all tended
> >> to jump right in to the details of "what is an SOA" without
> >> nailing down the answer to the "why should I [the reader]
> >> care?" question. As we learned in the f2f discussion, many of
> >> us on the TC care because it's our job to explain to others
> >> why we all seem to think we need this 'SOA' thing (other than
> >> that it keeps being in the news!) I'm guessing that if we can
> >> understand why SOA has become a buzzword, we'll clarify the
> >> "essential definition" question.
> >>
> >> So, here's what I think is driving SOA:
> >>
> >> "The SOA concept has emerged in response to the need for an
> >> approach to application architecture that is well adapted to
> >> the I! nternet environment.
> >>
> >> SOA is a strategy that organizes an enterprises functionality
> >> as services that can be aggregated and/or reused in order to
> >> achieve business goal(s). To take advantage of services over
> >> the internet there has to be the ability to understand,
> >> discover, combine and use the services that reside within the
> >> enterprise or anywhere on the internet.
> >>
> >> The Internet has revolutionized personal communications with
> >> e-mail, and "B-to-C" transactions with the World-Wide Web.
> >> Following the exploitation path of other technologies, the
> >> Internet may be expected to have a similar revolutionary
> >> effect on "B-to-B" transactions - - automating
> >> system-to-system exchanges - - and this domain may eventually
> >> be several times larger in scale that the "B-to-C" space.
> >>
> >> The characteristics of the Internet environment to which the
> >> SOA concept responds are:
> >>
> >> 1. Multiple management domains.--Business or other entities
> >> "on the 'Net" each have their own set of policies and
> >> procedures, and they are legal peers so there is little or no
> >> "top down governance" in the environment;
> >>
> >> 2. Heterogeneous technologies, semantics and processes;
> >> 3. A very large and dynamic "marketplace" of potential service
> >> providers and consumers.--Unlike the environment within a
> >> single organization, there may be many alternative providers
> >> of a computing service, and available services may change on a
> >> minute-by-minute basis;
> >>
> >> 4. Lack of standard context.--Within a single organization,
> >> there is normally a body of "well-known" information about
> >> what resources are available, how they may be obtained, what
> >> standards or conventions they follow, specific interface
> >> details, reliability of the resource, payment requirements, if
> >> any, etc. In the environment of a single computer, the
> >> unknowns are even fewer. Because of the size and diversity of
> >> the Internet, obtaining this information is a much larger problem.
> >>
> >> 5. Lack of infrastructure services.--The Internet provides
> >> some basic services, but on a "best-efforts" basis. Thus
> >> issues like quality-of service and security require must be
> >> addressed more explicitly than in single-computer or
> >> local-network environments.
> >>
> >> Application architectures that call themselves "SOA" provide a
> >> solution to these issues of the Internet environment. There is
> >> nothing to prevent implemen! ting an SOA within a local
> >> network, on a single computing platform, or even in a
> >> non-technical environment like a human household, but the need
> >> for SOA is driven by the opportunity for exploiting the
> >> worldwide connectivity provided by the Internet."
> >>
> >> Martin
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: John Harby [mailto:jharby@gmail.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:05 PM
> >> To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> >> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] When Is An SOA Really An SOA?
> >>
> >> This seem to be an issue for defining "Reference Model". Does
> >> this
> >> reference model provide a litmus test for architectures to
> >> determine
> >> whether or not they follow SOA?
> >>
> >> On 5/5/05, Chiusano Joseph wrote:
> >> > This question has been on my mind for quite some time, and I
> >> would like now
> >> > to put it in the context of our in-process RM.
> >> >
> >> > In the past, I have pondered the following more specific
> >> question (please !
> >> > note that this is all scoped to Web Services-based SOA for
> >> ease of
> >> > explanation):
> >> >
> >> > If I have 2 Web Services that communicate, do I have an SOA?
> >> >
> >> > We can say "certainly not!". One can do point-to-point
> >> integration with Web
> >> > Services just as easily (to a certain degree) as without,
> >> with redundant Web
> >> > Services rather than shared Web Services (a violation of one
> >> of the
> >> > foundational tenets of SOA, which is shared services).
> >> >
> >> > Now let's say that we have 2 Web Services that each conform
> >> to the SOA
> >> > Architectural Model in Figure 1 of our most recent draft.
> >> There is a data
> >> > model, a policy, a contract, etc.
> >> >
> >> > Add to that our definition of SOA on line 470, in which we
> >> (correctly) state
> >> > that SOA is a form of Enterprise Architecture, which (at
> >> least in my mind)
> >> > implies enterprise-level benefits.
> >> >
> >> > Q: Given the last scenario above (2 Web Se! rvices that each
> >> conform to the
> >> > SOA Architectural Model ) and our definition of SOA: Is this
> >> scenario
> >> > large-scale enough that it *really* meets our definition?
> >> IOW, how
> >> > large-scale does an "instance" that conforms to our RM have
> >> to be to yield
> >> > benefits on an enterprise scale? Do we need to stipulate
> >> something regarding
> >> > this for our RM?
> >> >
> >> > Joe
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Joseph Chiusano
> >> >
> >> > Booz Allen Hamilton
> >> >
> >> > Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >***********
> >Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. -
> >http://www.adobe.com Chair - OASIS Service Oriented Architecture
> >Reference Model Technical Committee -
> >http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=soa-rm
> >Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/
> >Adobe Enterprise Developer Resources -
> >http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
> >***********
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>--
>***********
>Senior Standards Strategist - Adobe Systems, Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
>Chair - OASIS Service Oriented Architecture Reference Model Technical
>Committee -
>http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=soa-rm
>Vice Chair - UN/CEFACT Bureau Plenary - http://www.unece.org/cefact/ Adobe
>Enterprise Developer Resources -
>http://www.adobe.com/enterprise/developer/main.html
>***********
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
/ Ken
Laskey \
| MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 |
| 7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 |
\ McLean VA 22102-7508 /
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*** note: phone number changed 4/15/2005 to 703-983-7934 ***
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