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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] Loose Coupling
I don't know what caused the email styling to go
nuts on this post, but I hope you can figure it
out Wes, because I can't wade through all this to
read whatever your post intended to say.
Sorry,
Rex
At 9:46 AM -0400 5/20/05, <McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca> wrote:
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><title>RE: [soa-rm] Loose Coupling</title>
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><p class=MsoNormal><span
>class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy
>face=Arial><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Joe,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal><span
>class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy
>face=Arial><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if
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>
><p class=MsoNormal><span
>class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy
>face=Arial><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>Your
>definition seems reasonable.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal><span
>class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy
>face=Arial><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span class=EmailStyle18><font
>size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
>12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span style='mso-element:field-begin'></span><span
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>\s "E-mail Signature" <span
>style='mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![endif]--><font
>color=black><span lang=FR-CA
>style='color:black;mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'>Wes</span></font><!--[if
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>class=EmailStyle18><font size=2 color=navy face=Arial><span style='font-size:
>10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span style='mso-element:
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>12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Tahoma><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
>Message-----<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Chiusano Joseph
>[mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> May 19, 2005 10:37 PM<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b>
>soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [soa-rm] Loose
>Coupling</span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Can
>someone please provide what they believe to be a definition of "SOA
>Fabric"? By this I don't mean "I don't know what it is so I am
>seeking meaning", but rather "I am not sure that we are all in
>semantic alignment/agreement for this term".</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I will
>start with my definition: "A SOA Fabric is an abstract concept to
>represent the environment in which a service within a service-oriented system
>resides, is discovered, is invoked, and is evolved."</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Please
>poke lots of holes in it.:)</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Joe</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>P.S. I
>didn't even get into the notion of a "SOA
>Fabric Softener":p</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Kind
>Regards,</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Joseph
>Chiusano</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Booz
>Allen Hamilton</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=2 color=black
>face=Arial><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Visit
>us online@ </span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black'><a
>href="http://www.boozallen.com/"; title="http://www.boozallen.com/";><font
>size=2 face=Arial title="http://www.boozallen.com/";><span style='font-size:
>10.0pt;font-family:Arial'>http://www.boozallen.com</span></font></a></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='margin-left:.5in'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
>
><div style='border:none;border-left:solid black
>1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
>
><div class=MsoNormal align=center
>style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:39.75pt;text-align:center;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:
>solid black 1.5pt;padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3
>color=black face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>
>
><hr size=2 width="100%" align=center>
>
></span></font></div>
>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><b><font size=2 color=black
>face=Tahoma><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black;
>font-weight:bold'>From:</span></font></b><font
>size=2 color=black face=Tahoma><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'> Rex Brooks
>[mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] <br>
><b><span
>style='font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b>
>Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:15
>PM<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Hamid Ben Malek; Michael
>Stiefel; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org<br>
><b><span style='font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [soa-rm] Loose
>Coupling</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I don't
>actually intend to get into this, but I wanted to point out, Hamid, that you
>are assuming or presuming that we all go along
>with concept of an SOA Fabric as
>the best, or even one of the contenders for the best working description and
>governance model for SOA. I don't happen to
>subscribe to that viewpoint, nor do
>I subscribe to the Enterprise Service Bus Model. However, there are important
>concepts and modeling elements within both
>of those schools of thought on
>SOA with which I do agree and have every intention of adopting for myself,
>whether or not the TC decides to include those
>concepts in the Reference Model.
>As for loose-coupling, I consider it one of those options best described in a
>primer or as part of a user guide or implementation guide, as a best-practice
>recommendation just because it is more flexible.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>That doesn't
>mean that I think all tightly coupled SOAs will be inferior, just more limited
>and difficult to work with.</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Ciao,</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Rex</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>I would
>encourage folks to have a look at</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if
>!supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]></span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal style='mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto;
>margin-left:39.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>At 6:17 PM
>-0700 5/19/05, Hamid Ben Malek wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
></div>
>
><div style='border:none;border-left:solid black
>1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>Michael,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>You have a good analysis; however, you are missing many points. I
>unfortunately cannot explain this clearly by email because it needs few pages
>of verbosity. I certainly hope I will have time to write a good article in
>which I explain these things. I just hope to make the deadline for spec review
>(next Wednesday) and submit the article along with my reviews included in the
>spreadsheet. Let me try here to summarize the points you are missing in your
>analysis below:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>I believe that in your analysis, the concept of
>"loose-coupling" is not well
>understood in its right context. When we
>talk about loose-coupling in SOA, it refers to a much strict concept that
>touches directly the boundaries of the services and the service consumers. If
>the coupling remains inside the SOA Fabric and does not directly touch a
>service and/or a service consumer, this kind of coupling is not a
>"coupling" in the context of SOA. For example, when you talk about
>"policy requirements" and things alike, these concepts are actually
>handled by the SOA Fabric and not directly by a service and/or a service
>consumer in the sense that the implementation of it may have to change or
>accommodate in a certain way to ensure
>interoperability. The third principle of
>SOA (about "Contracts and Schemas") is really ensuring the strict
>concept of "loose-coupling" by pushing any other types of couplings
>to the SOA Fabric which is able to handle to job and take off the work load
>from service consumers by using data transformations.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>Regards,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>Hamid.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
>From: Michael Stiefel [mailto:development@reliablesoftware.com]<br>
>Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 5:37 PM<br>
>To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org<br>
>Subject: [soa-rm] Loose Coupling</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>While I agree that in general loose
>coupling is good in a SOA, the</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>definition of a SOA should not
>include loose coupling.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>Loose coupling is a design
>attribute, and therefore a concrete not
>an</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>abstract attribute. It is also a question of degree. How much
>loose</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>coupling you have is a tradeoff
>among various design factors.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>In theory you could have a tightly
>coupled SOA. How? If the
>policy</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>requirements of the service were so rigid, and tightly patterned
>after many</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>implementation details, I would consider that a tightly coupled
>SOA.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>However, our SOA RM should include the idea of multiple services
>and the</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>appropriate abstract attributes that go along with that. I would
>think we</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>could then use that as a reference
>point to talk about how tightly
>coupled</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>a particular concrete architecture would be.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>Michael</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=3 color=black
>face="Arial Unicode MS"><span
>style='font-size:12.0pt;color:black'> </span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>At 07:48 PM 5/19/2005, Don Flinn wrote:</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>Hamid</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> </span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>I agree with your differences between the older distributed
>models,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>where CORBA is an example, BUT I believe that some of the
>members of the</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>TC would reject them for inclusion in the RM as being too
>concrete. For</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>example, loose-coupling has been rejected by some members as
>being too</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>concrete a concept. IMHO this is one of the
>distinguishing features</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>that differentiate an SOA from the previous distributed
>systems.</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> </span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>Don</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> </span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>>On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 15:46
>-0700, Hamid Ben Malek wrote:</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Frank,</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Using Matt's expression, Corba could be put in the
>category of "OO +</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > extra things". Corba is Object-Oriented, has
>discovery services,</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > interfaces, language neutral, a communication bus, and
>so many other</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > features. However, Corba is definitely NOT SOA. Why?
>There are many</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > reasons for this. It suffices to only cite one reason
>which is related</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > to the third SOA
>principle (ˆ¢¬§¬¶Contracts and
>Schemasˆ¢¬§</span></font><font
>size=2 color=black><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;color:black'>ˆ¼).</span></font><font
>size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
>"Courier New";color:black'> Corba does
>not</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > satify the third principle (actually it does not satify
>other</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > principles too). Corba is RPC-based, and the message
>that goes inside</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > the wire is a binary OO-RPC call. The limitations of
>OO-RPC calls for</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > applications that go beyond the enterprise scope are
>well known</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > (problems related to very tight-coupling, versioning
>problems, etcˆ¢¬§</span></font><font size=2
>color=black><span style='font-size:
>10.0pt;mso-ascii-font-family:VT100;mso-hansi-font-family:VT100;color:black'>’ÄÝ</span></font><font
>size=2 color=black face=VT100><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:VT100;
>color:black'>).</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > The third principle in
>SOA roughly states that the calls
>between SOA</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > services and between a
>client and an SOA service are all
>XML messages</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > and that only the contrats and schemas are shared
>between services and</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > clients (no RPC interfaces such as those described in
>Corba by IDL, or</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > other OO artifats). The third principle ensures
>loose-coupling through</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > the use of contracts and schemas. This is not the case
>in Corba.</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Regards,</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Hamid.</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > -----Original Message-----</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > From: Francis McCabe
>[mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com]</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 2:43 PM</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > To: Don Flinn</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Cc: SOA-RM</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] SOA System</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Well,</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > I
>wasn't aware that CORBA name servers
>had anything other than</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > IDLs in them; but be that
>as it may ....</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Is there a problem in recasting CORBA
>as an SOA? Or casting SOA</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > as</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > distributed
>computing?</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > There
>will be many factors that affect
>scalability in the design</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > of an architecture. The
>service-orientedness is just one
>of those</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > factors. To paraphrase an old maxim, there are few ways
>to be</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > scalable and many ways to
>be fragile:)</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > I.e., SOA is one property of an
>architecture - the focus on</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span lang=FR-CA
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
>New";
>color:black;mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'>> > public</span></font><font
>color=black><span lang=FR-CA style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;
>mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span lang=FR-CA
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
>New";
>color:black;mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'>>
>></span></font><font color=black><span
>lang=FR-CA
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext;mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span lang=FR-CA
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier
>New";
>color:black;mso-ansi-language:FR-CA'>> >
>interactions etc. etc. </span></font><font
>size=2 color=black face="Courier New"><span
>style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
>"Courier New";color:black'>To model that we need
>descriptions, semantics</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > etc.</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > To build a high-class SOA, we will
>need to consider other things;</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > and we will need to apply the SOA RM to the
>architecture.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Clear as mud, I guess, as my 'ole
>pappy used to say.</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > Frank</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > On May 19, 2005, at 2:30
>PM, Don Flinn wrote:</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > Hi Frank</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > My point was not to discuss CORBA's problems or
>lack of such. (I</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > was</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > one of the OMG/CORBA specification chairs during
>CORBA'S hay-</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > days :-)</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > But to ask at what
>level of abstraction does our RM
>specify that</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > which</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > makes it a reference
>model for an SOA. I know
>that an SOA is</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > different</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > from previous distributed models, but what
>qualities in our abstract</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > model do we discuss that makes it different from a
>specification of</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > a</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
>black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > generic distributed model.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > You mentioned "the focus on the public
>description of things". Is</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > this</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > the only thing that
>makes an SOA different and what
>our reference</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > model</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > should discuss? Even there, again using poor
>old CORBA, at an</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > abstract</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > level the CORBA naming service is a public
>description of things.</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > What I'm driving at and what we all are trying to
>grapple with is</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > where</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > on the abstract spectrum should we be. At one
>extreme, one enters</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > the</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > world of metaphysics and the question become
>"What is the meaning of</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > life :-)"
>My question is simpler, maybe.
>Where on the abstract</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > spectrum</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > should we be to model an SOA as opposed to any
>distributed model? I</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > don't believe that we can produce a usable
>specification if the</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > model is</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > abstracted to such a high level that we are
>delivering a reference</span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > model</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > for any distributed computing model.
>Specifically, what are the</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > abstract qualities that distinguish an SOA from a
>generic</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > distributed</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > model?</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > Don</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > > On Thu, 2005-05-19 at 10:57 -0700, Francis McCabe
>wrote:</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;mso-color-alt:
>windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > ></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> And the problem is ....</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> I think that CORBA's problems did not come at
>this level of</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> abstraction, but in the low-level
>realization. E.g., IDL is C++ in</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > a</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:
>black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> different syntax. It is rigid, and not capable
>of incorporating</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> descriptions of
>policies, etc.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> SOA *is* different from random distributed
>computing, because of</span></font><font color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > the</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> focus on public
>descriptions of things.</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> Frank</span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >> On May 19, 2005,
>at 10:20 AM, Don Flinn wrote:</span></font><font
>color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> > >></span></font><font color=black><span
>style='color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
><p class=MsoNormal
>style='margin-right:.5in;mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:
>auto;margin-left:75.75pt;border:none;mso-border-left-alt:solid black 1.5pt;
>padding:0in;mso-padding-alt:0in 0in 0in 4.0pt'><font size=2 color=black
>face="Courier New"><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";
>color:black'>> ></span></font><font
>color=black><span style='color:black;
>mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
--
Rex Brooks
President, CEO
Starbourne Communications Design
GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison
Berkeley, CA 94702
Tel: 510-849-2309
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