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Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop It!"


In fact, I do not think that policy fits in so neatly.

If by layers, you mean a technology stack, then that represents a  
bottom-up, implementation oriented, view of the SOA. It may be  
appropriate for an RA to be modeled as that kind of layer, it does  
not seem appropriate for a reference model.

On the other hand, I do think that the RM is layered on top of a  
different RM (Resource Model). The technical term for that kind of  
layering is *supervening*.

Frank




On May 24, 2005, at 1:08 PM, Vikas Deolaliker wrote:

>
> All of these facets of the RM can be built upon the layered  
> approach as the
> networking world has demonstrated. For example, policy can be  
> implemented at
> policy enforcement point (PEPs). All of these facets at an abstract  
> level
> need a mechanism for state transfer and mechanism for state  
> coherence i.e.
> synching local state with global state. Those mechanisms are easier  
> to build
> in a layered approach.
>
> But before we do that, we need to agree if layered approach is the  
> right
> approach.
>
> Vikas
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 10:11 AM
> To: vikas@sonoasystems.com
> Cc: 'Michael Stiefel'; 'Chiusano Joseph'; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop  
> It!"
>
> And what about application semantics, policy application, service
> management, security services, service intermediaries, etc. etc. etc.?
>
> On May 24, 2005, at 10:01 AM, Vikas Deolaliker wrote:
>
>
>>
>> Frank,
>>
>> Messages are abstract its binding to a communication model
>> (synchronous vs
>> asynchronous), format (SOAP vs. plan XML) or invocation model (SOAP
>> vs REST)
>> is architecture specific.
>>
>> About the arbitrariness of the layers. I beg to differ. The lowest
>> layer is
>> deals with transport endpoints while the layers above successively
>> deal with
>> higher abstraction of transport endpoints. For example Layer 2
>> deals with
>> service endpoint and Layer 3 with session endpoint and Layer 4 with
>> process
>> endpoint. This is a clean partition.
>>
>> A reference model should drive multiple architectures. The layered
>> approach
>> does exactly that.
>>
>>
>> Vikas
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Francis McCabe [mailto:fgm@fla.fujitsu.com]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 24, 2005 8:46 AM
>> To: Michael Stiefel
>> Cc: vikas@sonoasystems.com; 'Chiusano Joseph'; soa-rm@lists.oasis-
>> open.org
>> Subject: Re: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop
>> It!"
>>
>> This stuff appears to be off topic for a reference model.
>>
>> These layers are extremely implementation oriented; and I submit,
>> somewhat arbitrary. There is more in life than sending messages!
>>
>> Frank
>>
>> On May 23, 2005, at 6:47 PM, Michael Stiefel wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>> +1
>>>
>>> Michael Stiefel
>>>
>>> At 01:31 PM 5/23/2005, Vikas Deolaliker wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> One could potentially map the SOA levels discussed in this blog to
>>>> layers in a SOA-RM.
>>>>
>>>> Layer 1: Messaging/Queing with routing and transformation of
>>>> messages. The endpoints for this layer are transport endpoints.
>>>>
>>>> Layer 2: Mediation Layer or Brokering Layer. The endpoints to this
>>>> layer are the service endpoints. Endpoints are discovered using a
>>>> discovery protocol (like DNS).
>>>>
>>>> Layer 3: Session Layer. The endpoints to this are session
>>>> endpoints. Session endpoints can be all on one service endpoint or
>>>> multiple.
>>>>
>>>> Layer 4: Process Layer. This is the choreography/orchestration
>>>> layer at which new services can be developed.
>>>>
>>>> The RM then would need to define the notion of protocol data unit
>>>> that traverses up/down and in between two of these stacks.
>>>> (analogous to OSI).
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>> Vikas
>>>>
>>>> From: Chiusano Joseph [mailto:chiusano_joseph@bah.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, May 23, 2005 4:19 AM
>>>> To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>> Subject: [soa-rm] David Linthicum Says: "ESB versus Fabric.Stop  
>>>> It!"
>>>>
>>>> Forwarding a very interesting and pertinent piece[1] from David
>>>> Linthicum's (CTO of Grand Central) blog, titled "ESB versus Fabric.
>>>> Stop It!". David also discusses 6 different "levels" of SOA,
>>>> ranging from simple single point-to-point SOAP messages (Level 0)
>>>> to SOA that incorporates orchestration (Level 5).
>>>>
>>>> Joe
>>>>
>>>> [1] http://www.webservices.org/index.php/ws/content/view/full/63539
>>>>
>>>> Joseph Chiusano
>>>> Booz Allen Hamilton
>>>> Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>



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