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Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with Ontologies
> In case anyone thought that I had disappeared ---- We didn't even notice you were gone Ron ;) Joe P.S. Just kidding (couldn't resist):p Joseph Chiusano Associate Booz Allen Hamilton 700 13th St. NW Washington, DC 20005 O: 202-508-6514 <= new office number as of 09/19/05 C: 202-251-0731 Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Schuldt, Ron L [mailto:ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 12:25 PM > To: Rex Brooks; Frank McCabe; Ken Laskey > Cc: Duane Nickull; Matt MacKenzie; Chiusano Joseph; > soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; danny_thornton2@yahoo.com > Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages > with Ontologies > > In case anyone thought that I had disappeared ---- I have > been side-tracked by several projects for about 3 months and > now seems to be an appropriate point to jump back in. > > From the start of this TC, I have firmly believed that SOA > outside of tightly controlled environment (e.g., within the > firewall) cannot succeed until/unless the semantics issue is > addressed. If SOA-RM is the wrong TC to address this subject, > then I am open to the notion of a new TC. > > Ron Schuldt > Senior Staff Systems Architect > Lockheed Martin Enterprise Information Systems P.O. Box 179 > Mail Stop DC5694 Denver, CO 80201-0179 > 303-977-1414 > ron.l.schuldt@lmco.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 12, 2005 10:02 AM > To: Frank McCabe; Ken Laskey > Cc: Duane Nickull; Matt MacKenzie; chiusano_joseph@bah.com; > soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; danny_thornton2@yahoo.com > Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages > with Ontologies > > > That's an EXCELLENT idea! > > Rex > > At 8:13 AM -0700 10/12/05, Frank McCabe wrote: > >Hey, why not have a semantic mapping TC :-) > > > >On Oct 11, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Ken Laskey wrote: > > > >>One thing I have advocated in work outside SOA-RM (yes, Virginia, > >>there is another life) is the need to understand what are > the concepts > >>that go into a mapping, what are the properties of a mapping, and > >>(dare I say) what does an ontology that represents mapping > look like. > >>That very much gets into how one could possibly do effective > >>mediation. But that is a whole separate topic. > >> > >>Ken > >> > >>P.S. No, I do not propose we create a Semantic Mapping TC. > >> > >> > >>On Oct 11, 2005, at 7:36 PM, Duane Nickull wrote: > >> > >>>This was the base theorem for the Core Components Technical > >>>Specification (CCTS) which mandates a set of contexts as a > qualifier > >>>for every semantic entity. Even the simplest of data elements > >>>(FirstNameOfPerson) has different semantics if it appears > in a PO as > >>>//BuyerParty/Contact/FirstNameOfPerson vs. > >>>//SellerParty/Contact/FirstNameOfPerson. Makes it hard to > create one > >>>size fits all mapping rules. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>This is also why I drew the sinkhole with us staring down at > semantics ;-) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Duane > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>From: Ken Laskey [mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] > >>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 12:03 PM > >>>To: Matt MacKenzie > >>>Cc: chiusano_joseph@bah.com; soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org; > >>>danny_thornton2@yahoo.com > >>>Subject: Re: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with > Ontologies > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Mappings cannot always be complete because, as Frank notes, an > >>>ontology exists for a purpose (or variations of a similar purpose) > >>>and does not express all possible knowledge on a subject. > This does > >>>not mean there isn't value in a partial mapping or > mappings among a > >>>collection of ontologies. Ideally, if there was > information missing > >>>to which one needed to map, this information and corresponding > >>>mappings could be formally captured and expand the > knowledge base for > >>>future uses. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Ken > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>On Oct 11, 2005, at 1:24 PM, Matt MacKenzie wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I have adapted a proprietary access control language to xacml, and > >>>merely mapping concepts was not enough. It was useful, but didn't > >>>fill in all the blanks. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-matt > >>> > >>>-- > >>> > >>>Matt MacKenzie > >>> > >>>Development Manager, LiveCycle Registry > >>> > >>>Adobe Systems Incorporated > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>> > >>>From: Chiusano Joseph <chiusano_joseph@bah.com> > >>> > >>>To: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > <soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org>; Danny > >>>Thornton <danny_thornton2@yahoo.com> > >>> > >>>Sent: Tue Oct 11 13:10:51 2005 > >>> > >>>Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with > Ontologies > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>><Quote> > >>> > >>>For example, if I have a service that uses XACML policy and another > >>> > >>>service that uses EPAL policy, I could resolve the differences > between > >>> > >>>the two policy languages using an ontology for both policy > languages > at > >>> > >>>the policy decision point. > >>> > >>></Quote> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I believe this has already been stated on some form or another by > others > >>> > >>>who have replied, but this looks to me like the job for a "security > >>> > >>>policy reference model" (or similar name) that contains those > (minimal) > >>> > >>>concepts that are most central to the domain, rather than an > ontology. I > >>> > >>>see an ontology as a semantic model that may be derived using the > >>> > >>>reference model, along with multiple other representations such as > >>> > >>>concrete security architectures, UML class diagrams, E-R diagrams, > etc. > >>> > >>>One single reference model begets all of these and more. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Joe (living in reference model world these days) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Joseph Chiusano > >>> > >>>Booz Allen Hamilton > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>700 13th St. NW > >>> > >>>Washington, DC 20005 > >>> > >>>O: 202-508-6514 <= new office number as of 09/19/05 > >>> > >>>C: 202-251-0731 > >>> > >>>Visit us online@ http://www.boozallen.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>> > >>>From: Duane Nickull [mailto:dnickull@adobe.com] > >>> > >>>Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 11:50 AM > >>> > >>>To: Danny Thornton > >>> > >>>Cc: soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org > >>> > >>>Subject: [soa-rm] RE: Resolving Various Policy Languages with > >>> > >>>Ontologies > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Post from Danny Thornton: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>(he mentions the "O" and "S" words) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>;-) > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>-----Original Message----- > >>> > >>>From: Danny Thornton [mailto:danny_thornton2@yahoo.com] > >>> > >>>Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 10:26 PM > >>> > >>>To: Duane Nickull > >>> > >>>Subject: Resolving Various Policy Languages with Ontologies > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Hi Duane, > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>The following is an e-mail dicussion I would like to have > >>> > >>>with soa-rm group: > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>I have been reading WD-SOA-RM-09 to get an idea of the > >>> > >>>terminology/concepts for resolving various policy languages > >>> > >>>in a service oriented architecture. Section > >>> > >>>2.2.3.2 of WD-SOA-RM-09 discusses the limits of description. > >>> > >>>Section 2.3.1.2 states that an ontology can be defined to > >>> > >>>interpret strings and other tokens in the data. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>In the discussions I've had about resolving various policy > >>> > >>>languages in an SOA, I've hijacked the ontology concept and > >>> > >>>applied it as a general concept for resolving differences in > >>> > >>>policy languages. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>For example, if I have a service that uses XACML policy and > >>> > >>>another service that uses EPAL policy, I could resolve the > >>> > >>>differences between the two policy languages using an > >>> > >>>ontology for both policy languages at the policy decision point. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>For section 2.3.1.2 of the WD-SOA-RM-09, does anyone have any > >>> > >>>thoughts on expanding the concept of ontologies beyond the > >>> > >>>service description's data model? > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>Danny > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>__________________________________ > >>> > >>>Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 > http://mail.yahoo.com > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>>--- > >>> > >>>Ken Laskey > >>> > >>>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > >>> > >>>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 > >>> > >>>McLean VA 22102-7508 > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >> > >>--- > >>Ken Laskey > >>MITRE Corporation, M/S H305 phone: 703-983-7934 > >>7515 Colshire Drive fax: 703-983-1379 > >>McLean VA 22102-7508 > > > -- > Rex Brooks > President, CEO > Starbourne Communications Design > GeoAddress: 1361-A Addison > Berkeley, CA 94702 > Tel: 510-849-2309 >
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