Re: [soa-rm] RE: Act versus Object versus...both?

On Dec 9, 2005, at 7:47 AM, Matt MacKenzie wrote:

Are people still using mutt, pine and elm to read email?

-matt

-----Original Message-----
From: Rex Brooks [mailto:rexb@starbourne.com]
Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 11:59 AM
To: Bashioum, Christopher D; Chiusano Joseph;
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [soa-rm] RE: Act versus Object versus...both?

Please send text only, or do whatever is required so that I don't
have to turn on html in my email client, because I will certainly
forget to turn it off again before writing to other listservs where
recipients get bent out of joint whenever they encounter this stuff.
Of course, I also can't read whatever the message was supposed to be.

Rex

At 11:23 AM -0500 12/8/05, Bashioum, Christopher D wrote:

face=Arial color=navy size=2> 
<o:p></o:p>
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McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca

[mailto:McGregor.Wesley@tbs-sct.gc.ca]

<o:p></o:p>
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December

2005 19:09 <o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
klaskey@mitre.org; marchadr@wellsfargo.com; dnickull@adobe.com;
goran.zugic@semantion.com; mattm@adobe.com; tmathews@lmi.org;
sallystamand@yahoo.com; frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com

<o:p></o:p>
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soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
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RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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with Ken.

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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service

consumer is the key concept that indicates the entity that invoked

the

service in the first place. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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brokering service
or service actor is merely a middle-man. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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Message----- <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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Laskey

[mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] <o:p></o:p>
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December 6,

2005 2:02 PM <o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
marchadr@wellsfargo.com; dnickull@adobe.com;

goran.zugic@semantion.com;

mattm@adobe.com; tmathews@lmi.org; sallystamand@yahoo.com;
frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
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soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
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RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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argue that
a broker consumes the service on someone else's behalf.  In

reality,

service actor seems too nondescriptive because either the consumer

or the

provider can be thought of as an actor. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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PM

12/6/2005, marchadr@wellsfargo.com wrote: <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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stir

things up a bit, but can you change the service consumer term to

service

actor? <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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the case

of brokering the service actor is not consuming but brokering a

request to

another service. <o:p></o:p>
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broker service
can be a service actor upon the service but might not really

consume any

part of the service since it is a pass through.

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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guess this is
a matter of opinion. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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<o:p></o:p>
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Message----- <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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Ken Laskey [
mailto:klaskey@mitre.org] <o:p></o:p>
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Tuesday,

December 06, 2005 10:39 AM <o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
Duane Nickull;
Goran Zugic; Matt MacKenzie; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;
frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
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soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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we need to
add some words to the RM to capture this discussion.  We
cover part of
this in the beginning of Section 3.2.1 but need to be more

specific that:

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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service

consumer can be a human or a software agent; <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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service

consumer can invoke any number of services (including a single

service in

isolation) and can chain the output of some services to act as
the input of
others; <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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the

perspective of a given service, the occurrence of such chaining
would not be
visible; <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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service

consumer can be implementing a business process;

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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specific of a
business process do not change the basic SOA concepts as described

in the

RM; however, the specific architecture that one designs and
implements will
reflect the business process and make use of specific service
instances that
corresponds to the real world effects that the business process

hopes to

realize. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Now
that said, and
in full appreciation that we agreed earlier that mechanisms which

combine

services (e.g. choreography, orchestration) are out of scope, is

it

sufficient for words, such as those suggested above, to be

included

somewhere within the current discussion or do we need to pull it
out into a
subsection on its own?  As an example of the former, we tried

to deal

with loose-coupling and coarse-grained with words at the end of
Section 2.1.
<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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PM

12/6/2005, Duane Nickull wrote: <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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slightly disagree
with your assertions, probably based on semantics.  For a

service to

"participate" in a process, it would have to be aware of the
process (which
many will not be).  A better way to depict this may be to

state

"services may be aggregated and used by processes" and "processes

may be

represented/exposed as services".  There are really no limits

to the

number of layers that can be present.  Attached is a UML
CVD depicting
such. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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rationale of
why process is not part of SOA is that services cannot see

process. 

They are not aware of whether they are being called as part of a
process vs.
as an individual service.  If the "s" part of SOA cannot see

or touch

that, it cannot be part of the RM. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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chicken and egg
discussion you bring forward is a requirement for those building
services to
strongly consider the business process when designing their

service

infrastructure.  Accordingly, it is not really part of the RM

for SOA

yet I agree that it is a very important consideration.

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">For your

messages

to get to the list, you must join as a "applicant" rather than
an "observer"
as per OASIS process. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">*******************************
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Adobe

Systems,

Inc. - http://www.adobe.com
<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Vice
Chair - UN/CEFACT  http://www.uncefact.org/
<o:p></o:p>
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OASIS SOA

Reference Model Technical Committee <o:p></o:p>
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Blog -

http://technoracle.blogspot.com/ <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:
Goran Zugic [
mailto:goran.zugic@semantion.com] <o:p></o:p>
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Monday,

December 05, 2005 8:47 PM <o:p></o:p>
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
Duane Nickull;
Matt MacKenzie; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;

frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com

<o:p></o:p>
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soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

Re:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Thanks

for the

response. Yes I would like to see the PPT. I hope you do not mind

if I add

few more thoughts related to services and business processes:
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Services
participate in a business process to add some value to it. They

can be

governed and evaluated using business process metrics. One service

can

participate in many business processes and provide value to each

of them

according to the context within that process. As far as SOA is
concerned it
is as important to know what the service does, how it can be

discovered,

contacted, invoked, executed, etc. as it is to be able to use it
within the
process context, measure it and assess its value from the business

process

requirements point of view. SOA needs to avoid typical new

technology

chicken and egg syndrome, e.g. companies not producing services

because

there are no service friendly process definitions to use them
and not having
SOA friendly process definitions because there are no services to

use.

Services do not have to know if they will be involved in the

process

upfront, they will be contacted on demand according to the process

script

that is in effect, and they will be contacted, checked if
available, passed
the arguments, collected the response and according to their
procedure left
alone to wait for another call. The process execution engine

however needs

to invoke the service according to both service specific
information and the
process specific information. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Having

just the

service specific information in a model covers only one part of
the picture
and I think it is fine as long as that model is a pure service

model.

However I find it difficult to understand that the SOA RM TC
model is a SOA
reference model when it does not include other concepts of SOA.
Unfortunately it seems that we cannot get to the point where we
could agree
on a minimal set of supported SOA concepts by a model to be the

<st1:place

w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName w:st="on">SOA</st1:PlaceName>

<st1:PlaceType

w:st="on">RM.</st1:PlaceType></st1:place>  We do not have to

and I do

not want to argue with you or anybody else in SOA RM TC. I am
just trying to
see how our works can fit together in a most efficient way. We

obviously

need more time to better understand each others thoughts and ideas

and I

strongly believe that a constructive respectable discussion is

helpful for

everybody. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">By the
way, do you
know what I am supposed to do to get my messages to the SOA RM

list. In

spite of that I am the SOA RM TC observer I get a faliure notice
whenever I
send a note to the <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:PlaceName
w:st="on">SOA</st1:PlaceName> <st1:PlaceType
w:st="on">RM.</st1:PlaceType></st1:place> 

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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Original

Message ----- <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:
Duane Nickull
<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
Matt MacKenzie
; goran.zugic@semantion.com ; MATHEWS, Tim ; Sally St. Amand ;
frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
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Monday,

December 05, 2005 5:02 PM <o:p></o:p>
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RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">The

service layer

enables the process layer over top of it, however during runtime,

services

do not know if they are part of a process or being called

individually (it

would generally be a bad idea to try to maintain the overall state

of a

process within each service, although it could be done).  For

maximum

repurposing of services, it would be better to have the service
as a simple
slave to the processes that may use it.  <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Accordingly, we

made a decision that BPM, Orchestration, choreography is not a
core part of
the RM for SOA.  We generally seem to agree that many SOA
implementations will include a layer of BPM over top.  We are

only

addressing the SOA model, not the model for the underlying or

overarching

layers. <o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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PPT that

explains this in more detail if you are interested.

<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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<o:p></o:p>
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">*******************************
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Adobe

Systems,

Inc. - http://www.adobe.com

<o:p></o:p>
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Vice
Chair - UN/CEFACT  http://www.uncefact.org/
<o:p></o:p>
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OASIS SOA

Reference Model Technical Committee <o:p></o:p>
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Personal

Blog -

http://technoracle.blogspot.com/ <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:

Matt

MacKenzie [ mailto:mattm@adobe.com] <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sent:

Monday,

December 05, 2005 12:51 PM <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
goran.zugic@semantion.com; MATHEWS, Tim; Sally St. Amand;
frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Cc:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Process
orientation
is only one of multiple potential integration with service

oriented

architecture.  SOA-RM is laying the foundation for durable
architecture
based on the core concept of service orientation.  We

recognize that

process oriented architecture is a natural fit with service
orientation...but so are things like event orientation.
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">-matt
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:
goran.zugic@semantion.com [ mailto:goran.zugic@semantion.com]
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sent:

Monday,

December 05, 2005 3:36 PM <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:

MATHEWS, Tim;

Matt MacKenzie; Sally St. Amand; frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Cc:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

Re:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">I think
that SOA RM
has done good job documenting well-known service related concepts

and

defining some new ones. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">I do
not see other
details besides service and service-related concept definitions in

the

current SOA RM committee draft right now. I look forward to seeing

the

completion of the model you are working on with the bottom-up

approach.

<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Business, business
processes and collaboration aspects of business are important to
address in
the model what is not the case with the current content of the SOA

RM

committee draft. By a business process I mean a generic business

process

entity which has common components (activities, decisions, etc)

and

relationships between them that can be used to model a business

process in

any environment regardless of what business we support and

technology we

use. I agree with Sally that a link between business processes
and services
should be one of key requirements any SOA reference model should

try to

meet. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">I am
not sure what
SOA with services brings to business when the link between the

business

processes and services and overall business process semantics in

the SOA

context are not considered to be important aspects in a
SOA-based reference
model. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Goran
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">-----Original

Message----- <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:
MATHEWS, Tim
[ mailto:tmathews@lmi.org] <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sent:

Monday,

December 5, 2005 12:34 PM <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To: 'Matt
MacKenzie', 'Sally St. Amand', frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Cc:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
"Componentization" <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Matt - I

am not

sure what point you are trying to make by this?  I agree with

your

premise of a bottom up effort, as this was one of the operating
assumptions
that was made from the beginning. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">But, I
am confident
it is the business environment that is independent from the
reference model.
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">TM
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:

Matt

MacKenzie [ mailto:mattm@adobe.com] <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sent:

Monday,

December 05, 2005 11:58 AM <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To: Sally

St.

Amand; frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Cc:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

RE:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
"Componentization" <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sally,
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">A

reference model

actually needs to be a bottom up effort.  We leave the ever
so popular
?top-down? approach to folks like ebSOA J <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">We?re

creating a

vocabulary and general understanding of what I hope we can call
a discipline
of computer science in the future.  This means, we need a

durable

reference model that is not dependent on the current business

environment.

<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">-matt
<o:p></o:p>
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style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">From:

Sally St.

Amand [ mailto:sallystamand@yahoo.com] <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sent:

Monday,

December 05, 2005 10:19 AM <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">To:
frank.mccabe@us.fujitsu.com <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Cc:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Subject:

Re:

[soa-rm] Proposal: Reorganization of SOA-RM Draft for Better
"Componentization" <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Frank
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">This is
in response
to your request on last week?s conference call, if anyone has
comments speak
now. I also think that the recent comments on clarifying sections

are a

reflection of my issues with the specification.

<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">I agree

with the

majority of points made/described in ver 10. My issues are with
what is not
in this draft. Based on Fig 1 the Refe! rence Model is guided by

Reference

Architectures, Concrete Architectures, Profile & Related
Models. They in
turn account for requirements, motivation & goals. This is

creating a

Reference Model from the bottom up. I believe a Reference Model

should

reflect a top down approach. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">The
Reference Model
needs to reflect the environment, the strategy and the priorities

of the

business/mission/collaboration.  This will impact the

construction of

services. A service is a business task or activity that is
realized through
technology. The draft does a good job of describing how that

realization

happens. But it doesn?t provide a sufficient link between

processes and

services. The draft makes the point that the central focus of! SOA

is the

task of business function?getting something done. A business
process is made
up of tasks and activities to achieve a goal (getting something

done). The

concept of creating the service from the tasks and activities in a

process

is important. For example, where on the continuum of fine
grained to coarse
grained should a particular service be; this will affect

interaction,

reusability. The relationship between processes and services
needs to be in
the Reference Model. <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">While I

saw that

there is a note saying the glossary is still in flux, since one of

the

objective of the Reference Model is a vocabulary, having less in

the

glossary might be a better option. Is semantic integration a

guiding

principle of SOA? <o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 0in; MARGIN-BOTTOM: 0pt;
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">With

respect to

conformance there needs to be business results. That is an SOA

should

provide demonstrable mission accomplishments, e.g. ROI, match a
competitors
distribution channel. SOA is not a technology. Conformance should

provide

operational accomplishments, these should be measurable.
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">Sally
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in; MARGIN-LEFT: 363.35pt; BORDER-LEFT: medium
none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt">!
<o:p></o:p>
<P class=MsoNormal
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none; MARGIN-RIGHT: 1in; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM: medium
none; mso-margin-top-alt: 0in; mso-border-left-alt: solid black
1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> 
<o:p></o:p></DIV>
<DIV
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
BORDER-TOP: medium none; PADDING-LEFT: 3pt; PADDING-BOTTOM: 0in;
BORDER-LEFT: black 1.5pt solid; PADDING-TOP: 0in; BORDER-BOTTOM:
medium none">
<P class=MsoNormal
style="BORDER-RIGHT: medium none; PADDING-RIGHT: 0in;
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BORDER-BOTTOM: medium none; mso-border-left-alt: solid black 1.5pt;
mso-padding-alt: 0in 0in 0in 3.0pt"> <o:p></o:p></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLO

CKQUOTE></BODY></HTML>

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Rex Brooks
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Starbourne Communications Design
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