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Subject: RE: RE: [soa-rm] shared services comments -- enterprises and organizations?
Ok, Michael … perhaps my lack of regular participation in the group led to a false premise on my part … I had assumed a certain context in which this work seemed to make the most
sense … namely, the context corresponding to this (typical) dictionary definition of “Enterprise”: “unit of economic organization or activity; especially a business organization”. On the basis of that false premise, I am happy to yield the point (and apologize for the distraction). Avanti, BobN From: Mike Poulin [mailto:mpoulin@usa.com]
Unfortunately, I disagree with the Bob's observation. I will follow the definitions of enterprise and organisation I articulated in the previous messages.
1.
An enterprise may be not an organisation - an enterprise does not require controls
2.
All organisations have at least one enterprise - its owners and/or executives
3.
An enterprise is not a type of organisation (by definition). Also, I think that the statement "enterprises
as bigger than organizations" is inaccurate: an enterprise can cross the organisation's boundaries, but can at the same time leave some parts of the organisation ouside of the enterprise
4.
" Some enterprises are larger than some organizations; some organizations are larger
than some enterprises." This is an ambigous statement because it does not specify how some enterprises relate to some organisations. It is unclear, if people formed an enterprise and ready
to form an organisation, why they form this organisation smaller than their own enterprise? Regards, - Michael
Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2015 at 9:13 PM Wrt “enterprises as bigger than organizations” -- I think that in the context we are all talking about here the following
would be generally accepted observations: - All enterprises are organizations; not all organizations are enterprises. - An enterprise is a type of organization; an organization is not a type of enterprise. - Some enterprises are larger than some organizations; some organizations are larger than some enterprises. I have not been following this full thread carefully, so you folks might have already integrated these observations
into your thinking. If so, I am certain that whatever the consensus is among the active participants will be valid and workable. If you have discounted any of those observations as inaccurate, I’d like to understand the thinking behind that. Avanti, BobN From:
soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org [mailto:soa-rm@lists.oasis-open.org]
On Behalf Of Mike Poulin It seems I am in sync with Martin on org. vs ent. and on control. BTW, I see the following statement common for both org. vs ent. : <<it represents a decision-making unit -- which lets it makes policies effective for the whole entity, make commitments
and accept liability (via contract) for the whole entity, and direct resources of the entity. >> I'd like to comment on <<My sub-sub-sub organizational unit may feel most comfortable if it runs all the parts of my mission system, but
is it "outsourcing" when the next-level up CIO requires us to use their "shared-services" IdAM system for access-control? Or only when one of our engineers wants to leverage a call to an authentication-as-a-service offering on AWS? Again citing my experience
working in the US Federal Government, I might have more "control" over the AuthN-aaS via contracted SLA commitments (and the ability to fire them) than I do over my HQ's IdAM service.>> Particularly, a) Shared services can be "outsourcing" inside the company only if the the BU has the full ownership on its systems
and solutions (processes). This is a rare situation within one organisation, becuase both the BU's systems and shared services are considered internal resources. A corporate business can still own its A capability if it contropls the A-function while the A-implementation
is outsourced. If the capability's function is outsourced, the entier capability is outsourced and the company loses it b) If an authentication-as-a-service or any other services provided by anbother business organisation, it is the outsourcing
indeed. I agree with the need of 'more control', especially for a Government organisation. But here is a decision to make: more control AND higher cost VS. lower cost and less control :-) CHeers, - Michael
Sent: Tuesday, August 18, 2015 at 4:01
AM
Ken, all--
On 8/17/2015 10:10 PM, Ken Laskey wrote:
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