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Subject: Early users of TAG guidelines... for review
- From: "Durand, Jacques R." <JDurand@us.fujitsu.com>
- To: <tag@lists.oasis-open.org>
- Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:49:04 -0800
FYI
Folks,
Well, I did use the TAG spec in the creation of the SCA
Assembly Test Assertions document:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/sca-assembly-testing/download.php/30177/SCA_Assembly_Test_Assertions_01.doc
Comments welcome, especially from TAG
experts !!
Yours,
Mike.
Strategist - Emerging Technologies, SCA & SDO.
Co
Chair OASIS SCA Assembly TC.
IBM Hursley Park, Mail Point 146, Winchester,
SO21 2JN, Great Britain.
Phone & FAX: +44-1962-818014
Mobile: +44-7802-467431
Email:
mike_edwards@uk.ibm.com
From:
| Anish Karmarkar
<Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>
|
To:
| OASIS Java
<sca-j@lists.oasis-open.org>
|
Date:
| 25/11/2008 06:02
|
Subject:
| [Fwd: RE: [sca-j] testing
architecture] |
Forwarding per Jacques' request. He is not a member
of SCA-J and cannot
post to this list.
-Anish
--
--------
Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [sca-j] testing architecture
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 18:13:18 -0800
From: Durand, Jacques R.
<JDurand@us.fujitsu.com>
To: Anish Karmarkar
<Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>, OASIS Java
<sca-j@lists.oasis-open.org>
References:
<OF4390713D.430E4D13-ON85257501.00463C7F-85257501.0046D95C@us.ibm.com>
<49276ABD.5040906@oracle.com>
<OFC0A22A74.BBA99BD8-ON8525750B.004A895F-8525750B.004C052C@us.ibm.com>
<492B345E.3000003@oracle.com>
Anish:
Yes I'm listening
:-)
And indeed some legal issue still keeps me from full SCA
membership,
but I am willing to help on the testing. The XSLT-based
analyzer
technology we developed for WS-I can certainly be a good starting
point,
as far as I can tell, to derive something suitable for SCA.
On
the TA methodology side, worth noting: the Test Assertions Guidelines
(TAG)
OASIS TC that I am chairing is almost done with its guideline doc:
first CD
can be seen at:
http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/tag/document.php?document_i
d=30070
Not surprisingly, the TA methodology and model of this
guideline is
already applied by WS-I successfully ;-). I drafted a 2-page
digest of
this guideline, which is visible on the Tech Advisory Board (TAB)
wiki
(proposal in progress - no OASIS / TAB commitment!)
http://wiki.oasis-open.org/tab/TestabilityGuide
I am saying this because the ambition of some of us is to provide
an
XSLT-based analyzer technology for this more general TA mark-up.
So
my advice is to indeed (1) to reuse the TA model mentioned above, and
(2)
adopt Xpath2 (preferably not XPath1) for scripting some parts of the
TA
(target, co-target if any, prerequisite if any, predicate).
Of course, prior
to scripting Tas you will have to define an xml markup
for the material under
test to be used as Analyzer input (combining
metadata like bindings, and
message capture). Ther Analyzer technology
itself is independent from your
specific mark-ups.
I could explain more over an informal conf call after
ThxGiving.
Jacques
-----Original Message-----
From:
Anish Karmarkar [mailto:Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com]
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2008 3:10 PM
To: OASIS Java
Cc:
Durand, Jacques R.
Subject: Re: [sca-j] testing architecture
Thanks
for the clarification.
+1 to creating architecture to cover all the
TCs.
Thinking more on this, I'm not sure in which situations we
would
necessarily need two runtimes. Initially, I was thinking of
testing
references which have absolute URIs of services, but I think this
can
still be managed without two runtimes (as long as the URLs where
the
services are deployed can be determined apriori). I'm sure you
have
thought of cases where we would necessarily require two runtimes
for
testing. Would appreciate if you can elaborate on that.
One more
thing we might want to think about is binding testing. This
would require
capturing messages on the wire and analyzing them. This is
very similar to
what WS-I has done. They defined a log format, where
messages get logged and
wrote an analyzer to correlate and validate the
messages with the metadata
(in WS-I's case WSDL). We might want to do
something similar. Not sure if
Jacques Durand from Fujitsu (cc'ed) is a
member of sca-j or is listening, but
he was/is heavily involved in
writing a XSLT based analyzer to validate
messages on the wire in WS-I
and may have some opinions on
this.
-Anish
--
David Booz wrote:
> I'll try to clarify
the "two runtime" question. In my charts, the two
> runtimes are meant to
be from the same vendor. The last bullet on the
> first slide was
supposed to make this clear.
>
> From the whiteboard pic, the
two runtimes are indeed from different
> vendors but runtime 2 was added
to the board as part of a different
> discussion not addressed by the
slides. That larger discussion was
> about what constitutes a compliant
runtime, which bindings needed to
> be supported, etc. We didn't come to
any conclusions on this
> discussion, thus I did not include it in the
slides.
>
> We certainly don't need two runtimes (even from the
same vendor) for
> all the tests, but we need it for some of the tests.
The architecture
> was intended to cover all the TCs. See the 3rd bullet
on the 1st
> slide. I really don't want 6 testing architectures. I want
the TCs to
> collaborate and share as much as possible. We need to
position
> ourselves to take advantage of economies of scale.
>
> I hope that clarifies.
>
> Dave Booz
> STSM, BPM and
SCA Architecture
> Co-Chair OASIS SCA-Policy TC and SCA-J TC "Distributed
objects first,
> then world hunger"
> Poughkeepsie, NY
(845)-435-6093 or 8-295-6093 e-mail:booz@us.ibm.com
>
> Inactive
hide details for Anish Karmarkar ---11/21/2008 09:20:10
> PM---Dave,
Thanks for sending this out.Anish Karmarkar ---11/21/2008
> 09:20:10
PM---Dave, Thanks for sending this out.
>
>
> From:
> Anish Karmarkar
<Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com>
>
> To:
> sca-j@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> Date:
>
11/21/2008 09:20 PM
>
> Subject:
> Re: [sca-j] testing architecture
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
>
>
>
> Dave,
>
> Thanks for sending
this out.
> I certainly agree with the 1st slide.
> On the 2nd slide
(as well as in the whiteboard picture), it shows two
> runtimes (in the
whiteboard picture, it shows two runtimes from two
> different vendors).
Since I wasn't present for the testing discussion,
> I may not be
interpreting this correctly, but why do we necessarily
> need two
runtimes for testing?
>
> To pass our exit criteria [1], we need to
have at least two
> independent implementations. But I don't see that we
necessarily need
> to have two runtimes for all of our tests.
>
> For example, a very simple test would be an echo/ping consisting of
> two Java components (with PBV and deployed locally) A and B with B's
> ref connected to A's service. The logic of B could consist of
invoking
> A's service and println-ing the return value into some
stream that
> could be directed to stdio/file.
>
> For
binding test, it can get tricky because we have to capture
> messages on
the wire and ensure that it did the Right Thing, and every
>
implementation may not provide access to the messages, possibly
>
requiring two runtimes. But for non-binding tests we don't need that.
>
Furthermore, even for binding tests, we *may* be able to get away
with
> a single implementation by using utilities like tcpmon and
setting the
> URLs to facilitate redirecting/forwarding.
>
> I hope I haven't completely misinterpreted the slides.
>
>
-Anish
> --
>
> [1] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/sca-j/charter.php
>
>
> David Booz wrote:
> > Ashok
asked me to recap my testing thoughts and the picture, and
> put
> them onto some slides. Some of these thoughts come from Mike E
> also, so > I don't want mis-represent where they are coming
from. I'm
> happy to add > more material (there's only two
slides here) as we
> progress with the > discussion and clarify
the ideas. The last slide
> in this deck is meant > to be
equivalent to the white board picture
> that Mark C captured in a
> photo and sent to the list.
> >
> >
/(See attached file: testing-design.ppt)/ > > > Dave
Booz >
> STSM, BPM and SCA Architecture > Co-Chair
OASIS SCA-Policy TC and
> SCA-J TC > "Distributed objects first,
then world hunger"
> > Poughkeepsie, NY (845)-435-6093 or
8-295-6093 >
> e-mail:booz@us.ibm.com > >
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
--
> >
> >
>
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