Re: Kavi meeting with the UBL chairs

[Anne Hendry <anne.hendry@sun.com>]

Hi,

Here are a few more problems I ran into yesterday
that I sent to Jon, but to expedite the matter I'll
summarize here again.

-Anne

------------------

I recalled seeing a mail message recently from someone
outside UBL stating that they were trying to find a link
to a previous mail message and couldn't, so I dug that up
and included it here, along with a few other problems I
encountered while investigating this.  I think this is one
of several exmples of how Kavi link issues are impacting
external users and TC work.  This is just a small example,
but there are hundreds, if not thousands of people out
there trying to access these resources every day, and
probably not finding anything, even though we may not
be hearing about it - yet.

See comment which I highlighted by ">>>>" in left margin
from Diego's email below.  As I said, I'm sure he's not
the only one who is having this problem.  No one can retrieve,
with any regularity, anything from the OASIS archives.
This is quite critical.

The first thing I did was search for the email he said he
had tried to locate.  It was returned in the search results,
but clicking on the link - which does seem to have the correct
URL, according to what shows up in the browser footer, at least,
when I run my mouse over the link - yielded the now-familiar
http://www.oasis-open.org/css/top.css page: "Resource Not Found".

In addition, if I go into my members page and do a search
on the UBL TC (BTW, I coulndn't find the ubl-comment alias
in the search list) for this email message below, I don't
get a hit on this email from Diego, only on Mark Crawford's
response.  Why would this be?

I then tried to search on a phrase from Diego's email:
"registry/repository and the details about the CC" to try
to locate his email (not the one to which he is referring,
nor to Mark's response, but specificially to the email I
have included below) and got 'No results found'.  I tried
putting the phrase between quotes, putting 'and' between
each word (since the Search Help in Kavi doesn't mention
phrase searches, only word searches).  But still no hits
on this.  So the email I have included here doesn't seem
to be in the archives any more (or at least not according
to Search).  Is it possible we're losing data?

BTW, when I then clicked on Mark's message that was returned
as the response to my first query, I was taken to the
perpetual-redirect http://www.oasis-open.org/css/top.css
page ("resource not found") once again!

I'm holding everything I need for the TC work in my inbox,
unless someone has posted it to the "Documents" area of
the private area.  This is the problem - people are beginning
to put documents in the the private area becuase they know
it's the only way to get at them with any certainty.  But
this precludes anyone that isn't on the TC to get at the
material.  It seems to me this entire environment is intended
to close up the development process (or else it is built with
the assumption that the process is not open).  I'm biting
my tongue as I say this, but this reminds me much more of
processes used by other organizations, which purport to be
'standards' groups, which we know are not.  I woudn't be
surprised if this software was developed to server that
market more than the actual open standards processes to
which we have been accustomed.

-A

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Diego Ballvé [mailto:diego.ballve@republica.fi]
> Sent: Thursday, April 10, 2003 12:58 AM
> To: Steve Capell; Chiusano Joseph
> Cc: Ebxml-Dev@Lists. Ebxml. Org; ubl@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: RE: [ebxml-dev] A practical question on Core components
> storage, UBL, OAG, etc
> 
> 
> Steve,
> 
> I'm also working on a project that stores CCs using ebXML Registry.
> We've chosen to store the CCs in the registry only, not in the
> repository. I mean there's no XML representation of the CC in the
> registry/repository and the details about the CC are all stored as
> metadata, some as slots, some as associations (from RIM). A reason
> for this approach is, IMHO, the better search capabilities offered
> by the registry for metadata. The approach is currently in use but
> comments/critics are welcome.
> 
>>>> Btw, I remember a discussion about it last week, the result was
>>>> posted to this list in a mail with subject "Re: Mapping of CCTS 1.8
>>>> or 1.9 storage model to ebXML RIM". Unfortunatelly I couldn't find
>>>> the link to the archive to post here.
> 
> Regards,
> Diego
> 
> --------------------------------------------
> Diego Ballve
> Republica Corp., Products
> Survontie 9, 40500 Jyväskylä, Finland
> E-mail: diego.ballve@republica.fi
> GSM: +358 40 301 1140
> http://www.republica.fi/
> http://www.x-fetch.com/
> 




Jon Bosak wrote:
> 
> Karl,
> 
> I'm including the ubl-csc chairs list this time in order to cut
> down a bit on the delay caused by having me in the loop.  Internal
> Sun demands on my time have made my ordinarily lacklustre
> responsiveness much worse recently.
> 
> | We would be happy to talk with you and the UBL SC chairs about any
> | problems you are having with Kavi. Unfortunately, you've picked a
> | time that's right on top of our weekly staff meeting. Could you
> | make this 24 hours earlier or later?
> 
> (Karl is responding to my suggestion that we meet Thursay 17 April
> at 8 a.m. California time to discuss Kavi technical issues.)
> 
> I'm despairing of finding a time when we can get together for a
> one-hour call.  Our problem is that the 8 a.m. slot is already
> taken on Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays.  Perhaps we can work
> out something together in this thread.  Remember that we have
> subcommittee chairs in both Europe and Australia, so our options
> are pretty limited.
> 
> | Also, I asked you a week ago to send us specifics on any problems
> | that you were having so that we could look into them. As far as I
> | know we haven't heard back from you. It's difficult to look into
> | solutions for problems unless we know what to look for. If you
> | could give us details in advance of the meeting then we could be
> | better prepared to have answers for you.
> 
> Anne Hendry got back to me earlier this week with some comments
> that I am only now catching up with.  I append these below.
> 
> I'll note up front that some of the problems relating to the way
> memberships were handled were caused by my failure to get you
> information you asked for prior to the transition.  I'm leaving
> these comments in to keep Anne's input intact, but everyone should
> understand that I am responsible for a lot of what went wrong with
> this.
> 
> I think the rest of what Anne has to say speaks for itself.  My
> take on all this is that about 80 percent of the problems could be
> solved simply by trusting a few of us with ftp access to part of
> the web site.  The previous system limited our access to the ubl
> portion of the site and allowed us to work very flexibly within
> that limitation.  This is starting to look to me like a hugely
> difficult set of problems that could be solved with a single
> judicious policy decision.
> 
> I don't think it's necessary to respond in detail to the comments
> below (particulary since some of those responses would be just a
> tidge embarrassing to Yours Truly); they are provided for
> background.  Also, I suspect that some of the link problems may
> have already been fixed over the last few days; we've all noticed
> the work you guys have been doing to address these specific
> problems.  I think it would be better to find *some* acceptable
> time for a phone call so that we could get a whole lot of stuff
> out of the way fairly quickly and discuss the real problem, which
> is that making everything go through a mechanical interface isn't
> allowing us to operate effectively.
> 
> Jon
> 
> ==================================================================