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Subject: Re: [ubl-csc] Re: CSC call on 26 November


the first question is to ask ourselves is do we perceive a requirement 
for better co-ordination ?  if the answer is no, then lets let it drop. 
 if it is yes, then what are our potential strategies?  my proposal for 
the CSC is just the first one i could think of - but i would be happy to 
entertain alternatives.

i agree that administrivia was the original charter of CSC- and i had 
hoped that it would remain at that.  certainly i dont want to suggest we 
make changes without explicit and open debate.  in fact, i am reluctant 
and disappointed to have to suggest this role of  coordination, 
cooperation or clearinghousing - but i cannot think of a better way.


Eduardo Gutentag wrote:

> I think the purpose of CSC from the beginning was the resolution
> of administrivia, *not* coordination, cooperation or clearinghousing.
>
> We'd have to change both the goal and the attitude of CSC to
> attain what you and Tim obviously think is needed, or we would
> have to put some other mechanism in place. But whatever is done
> would have to be done explicitly, not just having an existing
> mechanism silently assume a different role.
>
>
> Anne Hendry wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> Since it appears as though the only people who may show up to
>> the CSC are the people who already discussed these topics
>> yesterday in the LCSC,  I don't think my discussion topic
>> on it's own warrants a meeting of those same people again.
>> Instead I'll add my thoughts to Tim's in hopes of broadening
>> the discussion to the rest of the chairs.
>>
>> I second Tim's concern about disconnects.  So far with the new
>> SC's we have a fair amount of overlap, but questions are still
>> coming up that require cross-sc communication and we don't
>> have a framework for those discussions.  I like to see the
>> Chairs SC take a more proactive role in providing guidance
>> and direction for managing the workflow (and communication)
>> between scs and for the CSC to be the place we discuss alignment
>> as we go forward, rather than leaving this to ad-hoc discussions in
>> individual scs, leaving some people out of the loop, which will
>> come back to bite us later.  I've always assumed the CSC to be
>> the clearinghouse for cross-sc issues and the coordination of
>> the various scs seems to me to fall within that scope.  If that's
>> not within the csc's scope, though, then let's decide how else
>> to best make this happen (coordination/alignment between scs).
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> -A
>>
>> P.S.  Since we're taking this to email and it's rather late now
>> (and I should be on vacation ...) I may very well not be dialing in
>> to tomorrow's chairs call.  I think the email route is more likely
>> to elicit participation at this point! :)
>>
>> Tim McGrath wrote:
>>
>>> i guess it may be a small attendance at the meeting so I will  put 
>>> my thoughts in email and we can follow it through this way.
>>>
>>> I raise this issue because it was evident at the last plenary that 
>>> despite the best efforts of all involved we had managed to get 
>>> seriously disconnected between the work of NDR and LC.  it was only 
>>> after the event i realised how seriously broken this process had 
>>> become.  in  fact, the first thing we should do is acknowledge that 
>>> we have not yet realigned the two groups - just bought time to do 
>>> so.  the situation with the work on code lists is a case in point. 
>>>  Obviously, this is a management issue - it has nothing to do with 
>>> who is right or wrong, good or bad technology, personal abilities, 
>>> willingness of participation, etc.  It is better management that is 
>>> needed.
>>>
>>> I am sure none of us want to be facing these fundamental disconnect 
>>> issues again at the January 2004 plenary.  We need UBL 1.0 to be a 
>>> technical spec. with a clear and common  ownership from the entire TC.
>>>
>>> In the past we have relied upon overlapping membership and nominal 
>>> liaison members to ensure we keep our work items aligned.  I do not 
>>> think this has been successful.  What is more, we now have 4 new 
>>> subcommittees to add into the equation. The question is what else 
>>> can we do?
>>>
>>> It may be that for the next 3 months the chairs group has to become 
>>> more proactive in its co-ordination activities.  for example, 
>>> seeking progress and activity reports and initiating  tasks when 
>>> things are not happening.  That is, perhaps we  need a project 
>>> management team and the chairs SC would appear to be the easiest way 
>>> to do this.
>>>
>>> I am not a fan of 'management for management's sake' but I want us 
>>> to ensure that participants in UBL get the satisfaction of knowing 
>>> their work is recognized and they are making a valid contribution to 
>>> the results - no more dead ends, parallel developments and wheel 
>>> spinning.
>>>
>>> Does anyone else have the same concerns?
>>>
>>>
>>> jon.bosak@sun.com wrote:
>>>
>>>>> There will be a CSC call on 26 November. Time 11:00 EST.
>>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Argh.  That's right when I should be on the way to the airport for
>>>> the flight back from Detroit, and given the expected holiday
>>>> crowds, I can't play games with the time.  I'd appreciate a very
>>>> brief summary of where you get with the discussion of coordination
>>>> across subcommittees; I'm betting that you won't get this resolved
>>>> in 15 minutes, but I'd like a hint as to where Tim is heading with
>>>> this so that I can think about it over the break.
>>>>
>>>> Jon
>>>>
>>>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the 
>>>> roster of the OASIS TC), go to 
>>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php. 
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  
>>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> regards
>>> tim mcgrath
>>> phone: +618 93352228  postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western 
>>> australia 6160
>>>  
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> To unsubscribe from this mailing list (and be removed from the roster 
>> of the OASIS TC), go to 
>> http://www.oasis-open.org/apps/org/workgroup/ubl-csc/members/leave_workgroup.php. 
>>
>>
>

-- 
regards
tim mcgrath
phone: +618 93352228  
postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western australia 6160






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