RE: [ubl-dev] How do communities enter the eBusiness marketplace age?

["David RR Webber \(XML\)" <david@drrw.info>]

Steve, 

Now you are asking me to dig out all the work I did with Tertium! 

Yes - we spec'd that all out - rules engine to handle the calculations -
completely context aware - and rule sets updated every 3 months. 

And then use of proxy services to ensure you get the best tax situation
- importer / exporter - and off loading of the reporting burden and
customers paperwork. 

Ironically when we started the project the whole thing was dismissed as
impractical.  Then of course once we had proven the viability -
including developing the rule agent and prototyping the tables and
integration interfaces - everyone else wanted to grab the
implementation phase!! 

But this was pre-UBL.  Now UBL is there - its much clearer - since UBL
provides a consistent basis for the product information - whereas
before everyone had to crosswalk to the Tax agent API and catalogue
their products. 

And as you note - Tax XML also now comes into play.    

I do know there is a company in Rockville that does this for USA
import/export and FedEx, UPS, Dell, etc using their own lightweight XML
transactions - they process millions of those daily as a commercial
subscription service to the shippers.

Now I may have to chase down exactly what did become of the Coopers and
Lybrand follow-on phase... ; -) 

DW 


 -------- Original Message --------
Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] How do communities enter the eBusiness
marketplace age?
From: stephen.green@systml.co.uk
Date: Mon, May 15, 2006 2:10 pm
To: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org

Hi David

Sounds great. How about a possible set of implementation guides
(e.g. from Tax XML TC) to add to that. And a catalogue of relevant
legal requirements related to localities (maybe a matrix A x B
for a country A party trading with a country B one). The skeleton
could start with a few countries, perhaps those with governments
already supportive of UBL and ebXML.

Plus codelists and maybe some default datatype constraints; the
latter could be controversial, if not topical :-)

Should it be context-aware in any way? Perhaps that can be added
later.

All the best

Steve



Quoting "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>:

> Steve,
>
> I was focusing more just on the broadcast nature of the problem - who do
> two parties find themselves?
>
> After that - how do I make my service attractive / affordable?
>
> But you are correct - tax is an issue in the EU.  Paradoxically I worked
> on an EU funded project to solve exactly that just five years ago.  The
> company was in Belgium - Tertium - and we did a complete design for
> proxy tax services in EU.  Coopers and Lybrand then took over the Phase
> 2 implementation after that - so I'm not sure what happened at that
> point.
>
> What is clear is that providing an eTAX calculation and plug-in service
> agent is very much doable.   And yet another reason to provide that
> infrastructure and reduce costs for participants!!!
>
> So I think we are identifying here the components needed:
>
> 1) Registry and web-facing directory of participants and services by
> classification category (ebXML Registry + HTML)
>
> 2) Downloadable S2Sclient with built-in come UBL simple transactions for
> PO process (ebMS + CPA)
>
> 3) Tax calculation service as proxy web service to provide transaction
> calculation agent (WS* tool to S2Sclient).
>
> 4) Registry of goods categories and tax rates in ebXML Registry for
> support 3)
>
> 5) Support from accounting SW vendors to make integration easy into
> popular solutions.
>
> 6) Government facilitation in EU
>
> Other things to add to the list?
>
> DW
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] How do communities enter the eBusiness
> marketplace age?
> From: stephen.green@systml.co.uk
> Date: Mon, May 15, 2006 12:56 pm
> To: ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
>
> Surely we just need it to be as easy as possible for
> someone or some company to send a UBL invoice, etc
> to someone else and there to be no problem for that
> person or company receiving it.
>
> To start with that would be someone under the same
> jurisdictions and laws regarding tax and the like.
>
> In Europe the limiting factor seems to be what is allowed
> by the tax authorities. So here it is needed that it is
> leagl for me to use a simple approach to sending and receiving
> UBL documents - that for one thing my tax authority doesn't
> have requirements making it difficult for me and likewise
> with the same sort of authorities over the one with whom
> I transact.
>
> The next limiting factor may be the technology. There is an
> expense aspect. The first factor may be linked to this - for
> example how expensive is it for me to store the documents sent
> and received electronically? Do I need encryption? PKI? If
> these and other helpful things are provided by someone online
> then how much and who can I use the services with? Again the
> factors are also who can use UBL to trade with me and how much
> will it cost them and do their tax requirements, etc require me
> to add extra to the IT bill (such as digital singatures, etc)?
>
> If I'm not tax registered and neither are my trading partners
> will it all be cheaper and easier?
>
> And the bottom line - what will all this save or benefit me?
> Will I just plain and simple have to do it to stay in business
> trading with my customers (or suppliers) or will there be positive
> reasons to use UBL and electronic transactions?
>
> Is it all, in the end, going to be down to slick service providers
> and lots of clever advertising where I hardly have to make a choice
> (as with a mobile or broadband) or government led (like digital TV)?
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
>
>
>
> Quoting "David RR Webber (XML)" <david@drrw.info>:
>
>> The need for ebXML and UBL today is just as important and relevant as 5
>> years ago; maybe even more so!
>>
>> http://www.nytimes.com/2006/05/14/world/europe/14italy.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1&th&emc=th
>>
>>
>> (you'll need to accept their free registration to read this item).
>>
>> How do we create communities of practice that can plug together people
>> across the globe?
>>
>> And more important - reduce their distribution costs so they can
>> continue to compete effectively and find new markets for their skills?
>>
>> Perhaps we need a benefactor to step up - or someone within the EU - to
>> create the registry and downloadable S2Sclient infrastructure for UBL
>> transactions.
>>
>> Note - we're just deploying S2Sclient here at NIH this week based on
>> Hermes that allows folks to request information and update data
>> regarding their grant applications in a secure and trusted way.
>> Plug-n-play ebXML-based grant requests - pre-packaged download and
>> install - using all open source / open license components.
>>
>> So we know the technology exists for the infrastructure already.  Next
>> we need people to take this to the iPod/ebXML level by establishing a
>> project to do that for UBL-based accounting.
>>
>> This would be a self-help service.
>>
>> Of course those needing the next level of integration - Roger Bass,
>> RedHat and others are happy to assist.
>>
>> But I'm seeing here - that folks like the industry in Italy don't have
>> legacy - so for them its a simpler question of just needing something
>> to help them get online and plugged in.
>>
>> I see that online tourism and reservations is web enabled today by
>> countries tourism ministries and has made that whole industry sector
>> accessible.  What about light manufacturing and agriculture sectors?
>>
>> Any takers?  Perhaps the Italian and German departments of commerce
>> joint initiative?
>>
>> DW
>>
>>
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>
>
>
>
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