RE: [ubl-dev] Re: [ebxml-dev] P2P for e-business - applications?

[stephen.green@systml.co.uk]

Afterthought: collaboration using HTTP rather than P2P
as such is an alternative of course, but that adds a
third party - the host or hub. In a sense the UBP does
that as a potential default anyway - if you don't want to
have to design the process and agree the details of a
customisation then SystML's processes and subsets could
just be the default ones (or SBS if that were finished
for UBL 2 and included processes)
http://www.systml.co.uk/xml
Couldn't these just be plugged into the various P2P/B2B
products? Maybe if we had a few reference implementations
- P2P and/or HTTP.

Steve


Quoting stephen.green@systml.co.uk:

> Hi Guys
>
> So it looks like it is still on the horizon, albeit
> with some vendor reluctance, then.
>
> I could imagine it being very useful for situations
> where there is collaboration needed: you mention the
> problem there is in parties agreeing business processes
> and I'd add to it agreement of the constituent parts
> of a document (customisation as UBL calls it). Maybe
> products will one day use IM or the like to provide
> collaboration; like chat but more structured and
> controlled, point-to-point, clerk-to-clerk as it were.
> This could result in configuration of both systems for
> the subsequent B2B. It's not so far fetched when you
> look at the negotiation of CPAs in ebXML.
>
> So what's the point of point-to-point? :-) Not much
> more than allowing collaboration in real time. In B2B
> I'd regard that as imperative for trading agreements
> but not necessarily for the business itself. But if
> it is provided for agreement resolution then why not
> allow it to be used subsequently for the business
> itself.
>
> But all this talk of expensive development just makes
> me think there must be more value in doing it than you
> guys say or you wouldn't be talking about it still :-)
>
> All the best
>
> Stephen Green
>
>
>
> Quoting david.lyon@preisshare.net:
>
>> Quoting Roger Bass <Roger@Traxian.com>:
>>
>>> Stephen, David et al,
>>>
>>> I'm jumping into this thread a little late...
>>
>> no - unfortunately it is still an ongoing thing...
>>
>>> This technology discussion all misses the point. From a pragmatic SMB's
>>> perspective, all they care about in this context is interconnecting
>>> their business processes with one or more of their trading partners -
>>> and having that be easy and inexpensive enough to be worthwhile, in the
>>> context of the overall business relationship. (The paper you link is
>>> quite flawed in its most basic premises and approach, IMHO).
>>
>> Pretty much. I'd second that.
>>
>>> Don't get me wrong - I'd love to have a technology that could do at
>>> least some connections P2P, and would do it for free.
>>
>> I think that there's a lot of talk and promises about this in the
>> marketplace. But it usually comes down to it needing some (quite)
>> expensive programming being done in an outsourced setting. It starts
>> off with the promise of cheap... but ends up being more costly than the
>> clients could have ever imagined because you end up having to provide
>> on the job training for the programmers even though you are being
>> charged full market rates.
>>
>> It's interesting to pick up the pieces anyhow.
>>
>>> In fact, I expect we will end up doing P2P in future - but only
>>> once we have a big enough group of SMBs connected to have a stable set
>>> of end-to-end process requirements. Then and only then will we (or
>>> anyone else trying to do this) be able to deliver a P2P product that
>>> actually works.
>>>
>>> There are no short cuts here.
>>
>> I think that's what a lot of us are trying to do. Sounds like a
>> familiar soapbox anyway.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org
>> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------
> To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org
> For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org