[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]
Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] UBL and ISO 20022 mapping
Hi Tim, I find the FinancialInvoice published together other ISO20022 standard models. Under "ISO 20022 Trade Services message definitions": http://www.iso20022.org/trade_services_messages.page It has been submitted by UN/CEFACT TBG5. About TC 154 I think it is in charge for trade standards while TC 68 is for financial standards. ISO20022 is under TC 68 Invoice standards should be under ISO TC 154, if any... I think. I just noted the Invoice is a "trade" document and is misplaced in ISO20022. Cheers, Roberto > without wishing to be too picky we should get the terminology correct to > avoid misunderstandings. > > there is no such thing as an "ISO 20022 Invoice". There is a Financial > Invoice message definition created using ISO 20022 methodology and > library by a community of users from the finance sector. It was not > created or approved by ISO/TC 68. It is important to understand that > the methodology and library are the ISO 20022 standard NOT the message > definitions. > > what has happened is that the Financial Invoice message definition has > been published by the ISO 20022 Registration Authority (RA) - operated > by S.W.I.F.T. (http://www.iso20022.org/trade_services_messages.page) > > so lets stop staying "ISO 20022 Invoice" - it suggests something it is > not. A more correct title is "Financial Invoice message definition based > on ISO 20022". > > > PS. > ISO/TC 154 has never published a Invoice document standard of any type. > I am not sure what you are referring to there. > > > On 7/08/12 5:40 PM, Roberto Cisternino wrote: >> Hello Marcel, >> the fact the ISO invoice is a subset of CII is in line with my assertion >> >>> The young ISO20022 invoice is a banking thing thousand miles from real >>> invoice needs around the globe. >> So the banking sector seems to be interested to a subset of the >> e-invoicing market :) >> >> Also please note the overlapping between ISO TC 68 and TC 154 as the >> Invoice IS a Commercial business document not a financial one. >> >> Banking is only committed to earn money and not strictly interested on >> interoperability achievements. >> >> They still miss the origin of the Invoice (Quotation, PO, ...) so they >> are >> also breaking several simplifications provided by using a consistent set >> of business documents like Universal Business Language. >> >> I am still convinced the way is the *complementary* use of trade >> standards >> with financial standards (UBL-ISO20022) because they are best-in-class >> on >> their respective kernels and there is no reason to OVERLAP. >> >> It is the history... EDIFACT was a pool of several messages coming from >> different kernels... but the time has demonstrated the need of more >> specialized (advanced) kernels for Trade, Finance, Customs, Health, ... >> >> We do not have to come back to a unique standard just because it is >> called >> ISO20022. >> >> This is my opinion, >> >> Best regards >> >> Roberto Cisternino, JAVEST >> >>> Hello Roberto, >>> >>> many thanks for your mail and your time. >>> >>> Am 03.08.2012 17:14, schrieb Roberto Cisternino: >>>> Hello Marcel, >>>> >>>> for an ontology that is mapping UBL with other standards you could >>>> review the OASIS SET TC and their deliverables. >>> Thanks, I'll have a look. >>>> UBL 2.0 and CII 2.0 can be mapped through the CCTS semantic >>>> annotations available into their XSDs, but I have nothing ready for >>>> this. >>>> There have been several attempts to make a gap analysis or map between >>>> these formats but a real and precise XPATH map is not available I >>>> think. >>> Sorry, I made a little mistake, what I meant to say is ISO 20022 and >>> CII >>> V2 mapping. >>> >>>> ISO 20022 : eFinance = UBL : eBusiness >>> I know that the invoices are different, but I think (I hope) they have >>> a >>> similarly subset. The main focus from my work is on the kinds of >>> transformation and secondary of the standards. >>> >>>> The upcoming UBL 2.1 can be used together ISO 20022 for end-to-end >>>> Financial Supply Chain applications in a complementary way, but they >>>> are different kernels. >>>> >>>> The young ISO20022 invoice is a banking thing thousand miles from real >>>> invoice needs around the globe. >>> Too bad, I had the hope that anyone have done this before. Because >>> ISO20022 said that the ISO-invoice based on CII v2 data model. (See >>> summer 2011 http://www.iso20022.org/newsletter_archive.page) >>>> Semantically ISO20022 and UBL are very different as they come from >>>> different repositories. UBL is an excellent ISO15000-5 (CCTS) >>>> implementation and its bricks are harmonized and persisted in the >>>> UN/CCL library. >>>> >>>> The "CII" Invoice is a different assembly of the UN/CCL semantic >>>> bricks, but I think UBL has a better structure. (two different walls >>>> made up several common bricks). >>>> >>>> CII is more a semantic work used to fit the European requirements but >>>> it can be implemented using any other CCTS-based language like UBL, >>>> GS1, CDX, PDX, ... >>>> It could be more hard to map other proprietary formats, EDIFACT, so >>>> on... >>>> UBL 2.0 Invoice is compatible with the core CII set requested by EU. >>>> >>>> I would suggest to keep your eyes on the European e-procurement >>>> project named "PEPPOL", that is an implementation of the CEN WS/BII >>>> Abstract model for e-procurement using the UBL 2.0 syntax. >>>> >>>> PEPPOL implements the core invoice model described by CEN-BII. >>>> >>>> You will note these days that the shift is provided by using mature >>>> XML languages for business like UBL, that can be easely customized >>>> (reduced) and profiled to fit several industry needs. >>>> >>>> I would like to present you an analogy with the past: >>>> >>>> *Standard Syntax* *Standard Abstract Profiles* *User Group >>>> Implementations* >>>> UN/EDIFACT >>>> none EANCOM, SMDG, ITIGG, ... >>>> UBL *CEN/WS BII* *PEPPOL* >>>> CII CII ??? >>>> ISO-20022 none EPC, CGI >>>> >>>> >>>> As you note both CEN-BII and CII are abstract models that are >>>> implemented through user groups. >>> And again, many thanks for your mail. Can I use your mail or some >>> quotes >>> for my work? >>> >>> Kind regards, >>> Marcel Trawny >>> >>>> Hope this is of any help. >>>> >>>> Roberto Cisternino, JAVEST >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> i am writing my diploma thesis about transformation (XSD and >>>>> ontology) >>>>> of invoice documents, especially UBL and IS0 20022. Unfortunately, my >>>>> domain knowledge about the invoice domain is insufficiently. Have >>>>> anybody a mapping for the both standards for me or perhaps a mapping >>>> for >>>>> UBL and CII V2.0? >>>>> >>>>> I am eternally in your debt. >>>>> >>>>> Many thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Best regards, >>>>> Marcel >>>>> ** >>>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> * JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino >>>> * >>>> * Document Engineering Services Ltd. - Alliance Member >>>> * UBL Italian Localization SubCommittee (ITLSC), co-Chair >>>> * UBL Online Community editorial board member (ubl.xml.org) >>>> * Italian UBL Advisor >>>> >>>> Roberto Cisternino >>>> >>>> mobile: +39 328 2148123 >>>> skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc >>>> >>>> [UBL Technical Committee] >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl >>>> >>>> [UBL Online Community] >>>> http://ubl.xml.org >>>> >>>> [UBL International Conferences] >>>> http://www.ublconference.org >>>> >>>> [UBL Italian Localization Subcommittee] >>>> http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl-itlsc >>>> >>>> [Iniziativa divulgativa UBL Italia] >>>> http://www.ubl-italia.org >>> >> > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > To unsubscribe, e-mail: ubl-dev-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > For additional commands, e-mail: ubl-dev-help@lists.oasis-open.org -- * JAVEST by Roberto Cisternino * * Document Engineering Services Ltd. - Alliance Member * UBL Italian Localization SubCommittee (ITLSC), co-Chair * UBL Online Community editorial board member (ubl.xml.org) * Italian UBL Advisor Roberto Cisternino mobile: +39 328 2148123 skype: roberto.cisternino.ubl-itlsc [UBL Technical Committee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl [UBL Online Community] http://ubl.xml.org [UBL International Conferences] http://www.ublconference.org [UBL Italian Localization Subcommittee] http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/ubl-itlsc [Iniziativa divulgativa UBL Italia] http://www.ubl-italia.org
[Date Prev] | [Thread Prev] | [Thread Next] | [Date Next] -- [Date Index] | [Thread Index] | [List Home]