HI all,
Thank you everybody for sharing the comments.
All the arguments presented by comments are valid in most of the cases. Usually it is internal information and usually Supplier shouldn’t be bothered with this.
At the same time real life and business is a bit different. Posting and approval information is a vital part of the invoice at the very end of its lifecycle but there are some use cases where it is carried together in the same message already earlier. I name some of the use cases:
1. Intra corporate invoicing where Supplier is 100% aware of buyers chart of accounts and project dimensions anyhow and information is used for automation of booking in Buyer side.
2. Invoice is moving from workflow system (where it has been updated with posting and approval information) to ERP system (where this information is relevant). As a document it ain’t the same invoice anymore of course but often still invoice is used as an information carrier – internal process but still relevant.
3. Transfer of the Order information from Procurement system to ERP – the same as previous point – internal process but could we use the same UBL for that we use for transport.
4. Long term service contracts when there is not always order for the basis of the invoice but there is an agreement between Buyer and Supplier that this information is forwarded together with the invoice.
5. Buyer is not integrating Procurement to ERP and wants to receive whole information back from the Supplier.
As said probably even most of the abovementioned use cases are usually solved differently and with different message types but the fact of the life is that today some of the Invoice/Order standard families are supporting accounting information capability (some worse, some better) and it is used in real life. I do agree, it ain’t the smartest but we don’t always do the things in smartest way as well.
I basically got information what I needed – there is no good way in UBL to do that.
Thanks for quick reactions and comments.
Regards,
Ahti
From: Pedro Fernandes [mailto:pedro.fernandes@ADP.PT
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 4:44 PM
To: Martin Forsberg <martin.forsberg@ecru.se>; plb@ebconnect.dk; 'Duvekot, Kees' <kduvekot@wehkamp.nl>; Allikas Ahti <Ahti.Allikas@opuscapita.com>; ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: RE: [ubl-dev] Re: Query regarding accounting information
Hi!
I thought I didn’t understand the question because my first thought was “you want to get your accounting information from the supplier? Why?”
Maybe some more explanation is needed…
Best regards
Pedro Fernandes
Direção de Sistemas de Informação
Rua Visconde de Seabra 3 | 1700-421 Lisboa | Tel: 212 469 549 (10549) | Fax: 212 469 541 | http://www.adp.pt
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From: Martin Forsberg [mailto:martin.forsberg@ecru.
Sent: 20 de fevereiro de 2018 14:32
To: plb@ebconnect.dk; 'Duvekot, Kees' <kduvekot@wehkamp.nl>; 'Allikas Ahti' <ahti.allikas@opuscapita.com>;
ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: Re: [ubl-dev] Re: Query regarding accounting information
Hi Ahti,
I agree with Peter - it's best if the supplier doesn't have to know the internal semantics of the buyer's accounting reference. There are many ways of defining the dimensions and they are often named in the language of the buyer. So if anything could be standardised it would be the separators but I question who would benefit from that.
Best regards
/Martin Forsberg
/Martin Forsberg
From:
plb@ebConnect.dk <plb@ebConnect.dk>
Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2018 3:18:49 PM
To: 'Duvekot, Kees'; 'Allikas Ahti';
ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Subject: SV: [ubl-dev] Re: Query regarding accounting information
Dear Ahti
Accounting Cost or (if you have have a code) Accounting Cost Code is exactly for this purpose. You can provide the information in the order and ask the supplier to send it back to you in the invoice. We have not designed any ways of designing dimensions since this is not meant to be understood by the supplier, but just some information to copy back. You can separate it with semicolon if you want a structure.
Best regards
Peter L. Borresen
Fra: Duvekot, Kees [mailto:kduvekot@Wehkamp.nl]
Sendt: 20. februar 2018 14:32
Til: Allikas Ahti <Ahti.Allikas@opuscapita.com>;
ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Emne: [ubl-dev] Re: Query regarding accounting information
Ahti,
Why would you expose your own internal accounting information in a document that is send to external parties? (Order)
And why would you expect external parties to provide details about your own internal accounting in the documents that they send back to you? (Invoice)
When you create the order in your internal systems you can assign any accounting information you need for internal processing to the order, but I do not see any need to expose that information to an external party ..
And when I receive an invoice back, I have a reference back towards the original order/orderline and that I can use to retrieve the internal accounting information needed to process the invoice.
"Everything" should be internally referenced by the Order/OrderLine. If you ever need to make changes to your internal accounting systems you do not have to inform all your suppliers that they need to change the accounting information that you provided in your orders ....
Lets imagine your self in the "receiving" parties situation. Would you want to store a miriad of external accounting information in your own sales systems when you receive an order from a customer, and do you want to invest in software to also make sure you include all the external accounting information of your customers in your outgoing invoices?
So my position is ... don't include it ... or only include "simple" references in the fields you mentioned ..and never expect you external parties to provide all the accounting information for you.....
(and if you do ... then you need to double check it anyway .. what if a supplier figures out your accounting structure in such a way that if he changes it to a specific code their invoice always gets approved mo matter what the amount is)
Kees Duvekot
p.s. I have excluded the response to the UBL comment list, because this is not a comment on a UBL it self, but a generic question about how to use UBL information entities.
Van: Allikas Ahti <Ahti.Allikas@opuscapita.com>
Verzonden: dinsdag 20 februari 2018 11:40
Aan: UBL Comment List; ubl-dev@lists.oasis-open.org
Onderwerp: [ubl-dev] Query regarding accounting information
Dear all,
Can anybody recommend good practice (maybe de facto way of doing at the moment what might turn to be de jure in the future) how to present accounting information in UBL Order and Invoice.
I know currently there are elements like Accountig Cost Code and Accounting Cost. Text, but as you know posting in accounts payable and general ledger often requires several «dimensions». A structured solution regarding that content would be important.
Would be thankful for any good tips.
Best Regards
Ahti Allikas
Ahti Allikas
Solution owner, Partners and Networks
OpusCapita,
Buyer-Supplier Ecosystem Business Unit
mobile: +372 52 766 76
ahti.allikas@opuscapita.com
www.opuscapita.se
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