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Subject: RE: [ubl-lcsc] Re: [ontolog-forum] [Fwd: [ubl-lcsc] Modeling Core Component Types]


Tim,

Can I submit your model to CEFACT for refinement?

Mark 


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim McGrath [mailto:tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au]
> Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2004 12:56 AM
> To: Peter Yim
> Cc: ontolog-forum@ontolog.cim3.net; ubl-lcsc@lists.oasis-open.org
> Subject: Re: [ubl-lcsc] Re: [ontolog-forum] [Fwd: [ubl-lcsc] Modeling
> Core Component Types]
> 
> 
> i would love to join but the time is bad for me.
> 
> also, i should point out that UBL has no role in desgning 
> these things 
> (CCTs) - they are given to us by CEFACT.  all i was trying to do was 
> describe their spec as a UML model to get a feel for what the 
> relationships were.  I would be the first to say they could 
> be better - 
> but its not our problem.   to be honest i think it would confuse 
> everyone to try and redesign these.  it is hard enough 
> getting people to 
> understand what they are now.
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Yim wrote:
> 
> > > One comment we could make for them right away
> > > would be that amounts and units should be in a hierarchy and be
> > > used with a single relation instead of having various dedicated
> > > and unrelated relations like Amount and AmountCurrency, as in
> > > the current components. ...
> >
> > Thanks, Adam.
> >
> > Tim, you got that (please consider this the first installment of a 
> > response from [ontolog] :-) )?
> > Can you join us on 2004.03.04 when we will try to 
> specifically tackle 
> > this matter during our regular phone conference?
> >
> > Cheers.  -ppy
> > -- 
> >
> > ====
> > Adam Pease wrote Wed, 25 Feb 2004 11:22:20 -0800:
> >
> >> Peter,
> >>   Thanks for clarifying.  One comment we could make for them right 
> >> away would be that amounts and units should be in a 
> hierarchy and be 
> >> used with a single relation instead of having various 
> dedicated and 
> >> unrelated relations like Amount and AmountCurrency, as in 
> the current 
> >> components.  SUMO already has an extensive hierarchy of 
> unit types, 
> >> with full semantic definitions for each.
> >>
> >> Adam
> >
> >
> > ...[snip]...
> >
> >>>>> Adam Pease wrote Thu, 12 Feb 2004 10:01:29 -0800:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter,
> >>>>>>   This sounds like a good opportunity.  I would 
> suggest that we 
> >>>>>> offer SUMO + MILO + Invoice as core components.  I also agree 
> >>>>>> that after people start trying to formalize terms (my 
> message of 
> >>>>>> 1/16/04 suggests who might try which terms) and come 
> up to speed, 
> >>>>>> that Tim's list would be a good next step.
> >>>>>>   I've left off the UBL mailing list from the cc list 
> until the 
> >>>>>> group reaches consensus on this.
> >>>>>> Adam
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>
> >
> >
> >>>>>> At 06:34 AM 2/12/2004 -0800, Peter Yim wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Hi Everyone,
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Given our charter, I would invite the [ontolog] community to:
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 1. review Tim's input (message below and the two attachments).
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 2. seek clarification (where appropriate), discuss & comment. 
> >>>>>>> Note that Tim McGrath (UBL-LCSC), Sue Probert 
> (UN/CEFACT-TBG17), 
> >>>>>>> and a good number of pertinent players (like Monica 
> Martin, Bill 
> >>>>>>> McCarthy, John Yunker, Farruhk Najmi, Marion Royal, Eduardo 
> >>>>>>> Gutentag, ... etc.) are actually either active or 
> observing on 
> >>>>>>> this [ontolog-forum] list.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 3. consider how "you" would (or "we" should) have tackled it, 
> >>>>>>> with an ontological engineering approach, giving the 
> >>>>>>> methodologies the ontolog community has been deliberating and 
> >>>>>>> working on.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 4. consider tackling this as our first real formalization 
> >>>>>>> requirement in the UBL-Ontology project, once we, as 
> a team, get 
> >>>>>>> past learning the ropes in SUO-KIF formalization. (ok 
> with you, 
> >>>>>>> Adam?)
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 5. would be wonderful if we can reach some concrete and 
> >>>>>>> actionable conclusions (in relatively short order) 
> and provide 
> >>>>>>> that as feedback and recommendations to Tim/UBL.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> 6. for other pertinent references, see: 
> >>>>>>> http://ontolog.cim3.net/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?UblRelease1_0
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Regards,
> >>>>>>> PPY
> >>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>>
> >
> >
> >>>>>>> -------- Original Message --------
> >>>>>>> Subject: [ubl-lcsc] Modeling Core Component Types
> >>>>>>> Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 15:01:40 +0800
> >>>>>>> From: Tim McGrath <tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au>
> >>>>>>> To: ubl-lcsc@lists.oasis-open.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> The UBL Library has been built upon a set of data types/core 
> >>>>>>> component
> >>>>>>> types defined by the CEFACT CCTS v2.0 specification.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> To date, we have relied upon hand crafted schemas to define 
> >>>>>>> these. This has resulted in a few problems...
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> a. the schemas have to be mapped to the 
> representation terms in 
> >>>>>>> the UBL models.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> b. they have not always been synchronized with other 
> deliverables
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> c. the provide a disjointed view of the overall UBL library.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> Over the past few weeks we had had various 
> discussions about how 
> >>>>>>> to deal with this in a more controlled manner.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> One of the options is to go back to our basic design approach 
> >>>>>>> and create models of these from which XSD code can be 
> >>>>>>> generated.  I know the Michael Dill has been keen to see this.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> To this end I have dug into the CCTS specification 
> and created a 
> >>>>>>> model
> >>>>>>> of the Core Component Types - both as a UML Class 
> Diagram and a UBL
> >>>>>>> format spreadsheet model.  These are attached.  My 
> objective was to
> >>>>>>> create structures that modelled the Dictionary Entry 
> Names in the
> >>>>>>> specification.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> I would be interested in other opinions on this strategy - 
> >>>>>>> particularly Michael and the TBG17 group.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> PS this exercise exposed a few typos (i suspect) in the 
> >>>>>>> specification so few objects have slightly different names.
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>>>> -- 
> >>>>>>> regards
> >>>>>>> tim mcgrath
> >>>>>>> phone: +618 93352228
> >>>>>>> postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western australia 6160
> >>>>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _________________________________________________________________
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> >>> mailto:ontolog-forum@ontolog.cim3.net
> >>
> >
> >
> >
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> the roster 
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> > 
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>
>

-- 
regards
tim mcgrath
phone: +618 93352228  
postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western australia 6160





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