Re: [Fwd: RE: UBL Messages]

[Tim McGrath <tmcgrath@portcomm.com.au>]

sorry i didn't pick up on these earlier, please see my comments inline....

also, i will add these to the agenda  for tuesday's call so i welcome other
comments as well.

> 1.  The GUID (PO no. or order no) is optional. This
> is not optional in most 
>   application systems.  
the GUID is not the same thing as a PO Number (NB we call PO Number either
BuyersID or SellersID).  this is one of those situations where we want to
say you should use one of these but we cannot say which one, so they must
be all be optional.  certainly specific trading partner's may refine these
to specifiy which one is mandatory.
>  2.  cat:BuyerParty is mandatory but the only element that is mandatory is 
>   
>   name. Most application systems need more than name for automated processing. 
the key word is 'most' we have to cater for the lowest common denominator.
 that is, when implementators contextualize UBL they can make optional components
mandatory but not vice versa.  this means we err in favour of having components
optional.
>   3.  cat:SellerParty is the same as BuyerParty 
i think you should find that a Seller Party has three additional contacts
- for Shipping, Accounts and Order.
>   4.  DeliverToParty is only at the line item level. If the DeliverToParty
> is 
>   the same for multiple line items, the same redundant information must be 
>   
>   specified for each line item. 
I dont think we use DeliverToParty - we have DestinationParty for a LineItem.
 this allows an alternate party to the Buyer to be specified - i guess we
make the assumption that  if this applies to the whole Order then this Party
should be the Buyer.  also, we do allow DeliveryAddress to be specified at
the Order and at athe LineItem.

>   5.  I don't see how to indicate a ship date. I see delivery date but ship 
>   
>   date and delivery date are not the same dates. 
it can be done now using ActualShipment.ShipmentStage but it is not obvious.
 We did discuss this in January and Stephen Green was making some adjustments
- but ia cannot find where this has been done.  Stephen do you recall?
>   6.  cat:LineItem, I do not see any way to order a kit where I need to 
>   specify each sub-item that makes up the kit.  They may all be different 
>   
>   items or part nos.

we do not allow for grouping items into 'kits' - each sub-item would be on
a LineItem in its own right.  if you read section 2.2 of the documentation
- it describes the limitations (or scope) of UBL 1.0.

> 7.  cat:LineItem is mandatory but all of the elements
> within it are optional. 
this is similar to your question 1.   either BuyersID or SellersID must be
used but we cannot say which one - so we have to make them optional and rely
of implementation guides or customized refinements.
> 8.  I do not see any place for a tax exemption certificate
> number or resale number. 
because of the various ways these are specified we have settled on just having
a text BBIE called ExemptionReason in the Tax Category.
 if the exemption applies to an Item it has its own Tax Category .
if the exemption applies to a LineItem is is via Allowance Charge and then
Tax Category. ( i guess the exemption is only relevant if there are charges).

>   9.  I do not see any place to indicate that an item is for resale. 
correct, this is out of scope for the documents in UBL 1.0. 
however we do allow Sales Conditions which may be used for indicating resale
- but again, this would be a implementation refinement.
>   10.  I can only specify one carrier in freight forwarder.  It is common
> that 
>   a buyer may specify several carriers to be used based on specific 
>   conditions. 
Again this is out-of-scope for the 1.0 documents.  the scenario we designed
for is what we call 80/20 - covering 80% of common practice.  we try to avoid
too much complexity such as what you describe - we would then need conditions
for each freight forwarder - based on shipping quantities, actual ship date,
cost ,etc.. etc...
in the situation you describe we would expect Order Changes and Order Responses
being used to negotiate different Freight Forwarders.
>   11.  I do not see any place to specify transportation terms at the header 
>   
>   level, only the item level. 
do you mean Delivery Terms?  they certainly appear for Order and LineItem
(if that is what you mean by header and item level)
if you mean Shipment Contract then this is available via OrderedShipment
in the LineItem - but not for the entire Order.  this may be a part answer
to your requirement in question 10.  it is possible to nominate different
Contracts for each LineItem being transported.  i think the assumption is
that if it applies to the entire Order it will be using the Forwarder and
Delivery Terms given - we only get more specific about LineItems that can
be shipped separately.
> 12.  If 2PL's, 3PL's, 4PL's, importers, exporters,
> or other parties in a VMI 
>   model are involved in a order, I do not see where they can be specified.
correct, i quote from the documentation in Section 2 - "Context of Initial
Library"...

Different business scenarios to meet different ways of trading cycle operation can, and should, be developed by separate, appropriate business experts. Ideally they should take advantage of the basic UBL model as a starting point and as an exemplar. However, part of the UBL charter is to develop a methodology which will formalize the way that documents for other scenarios can be implemented. This is known as UBL Context Methodology [CM]. When this is in place as part of UBL 2.0 it will promote greater interoperability, reduce ambiguity, and avoid unnecessary overlap.

Meanwhile we encourage the UBL community to share their customisation and developments, both to improve the quality of the underlying library and provide valuable input into the UBL customisation methodology.

For example, within the procurement domain, suggested other scenarios include situations of:

• Vendor managed inventory

• Self-billing

• Master Order and Call-offs

• Prior Quote Request & Quotation

• International Trade requiring Multi-party Transportation

• Hire Trade (e.g. tool hire, scaffolding hire), etc.

> 13.  If transportation contacts differ for a single
> item depending on 
>   delivery date and time, how to I indicate that? The max occurrence for 
>   transportation contact is 1. 
i assume you mean contract not contact.  this is a customized refinement.
 currently we would assume that if the LineItems were in different deliveries,
the same transport contract would apply to all.
>   14.  Where do I specify packaging instructions or specifications if needed? 
if you mean consignment packaging then this is in the Shipment and/or Transport
Equipment
>   15.  Where do I indicate payment terms if I don't have additional allowances 
>   
>   or charges? 
Payment Terms are only specified when invoicing (either the Invoice and Invoice
Line).  Payment Means can only be specified in the Allowance Charge - except
for paying an entire Invoice.  
> Also, Mike G brought
> up the issue of 'format' still missing from the 3  ccts (datetime, indicator,
> and numeric).  8-1 schemas still have these  restricted, and so don't accurately
> represent the model.  Perhaps this  can be added to ths list. 
>  
i thought it was decided that whilst these three CCTs must have 'format'
supplementary component in the CCT schema to be CCTS compliant, they do not
need to have this is the UDT  schema as this is a refinement for expressing
these types in XSD Schema language.  In this case, the format becomes redundant
because XSD has its own built in data type.
however, as i also thought Mike said this i may be wrong!


-- 
regards
tim mcgrath
phone: +618 93352228  
postal: po box 1289   fremantle    western australia 6160