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Subject: Re: [ubl-ndrsc] More comments on Tag Structure paper


Now you're talking. This I can go with.

Mike Rawlins wrote:
> 
> Sorry if I didn't make this perfectly clear and was confusing in
> contrasting Mark's position paper with what I am proposing!  What I favor
> is *exactly* what you are describing here.  However, in the case of
> "party" we are referring to the object class, and in the case of weight we
> are referring to the representation type.  So, instead of saying something
> like "patientParty" we just say "patient".  We omit the representation
> type of "measure" and just say "weight" instead of "weightMeasure".
> 
> Dave Carlson wrote:
> 
> > Also, Mike, if I understand another one of your comments, the "Party"
> > and "Measure" are actually datatype information that is appended to
> > the tag name.  This seems really wrong to me.  The datatype of patient
> > and weight are defined in the schema.  So, why not:
> >
> > <patient>
> >   <weight>
> >   </weight>
> > </patient>
> >
> > And the schema would have:
> >
> > <xsd:element name="patient" type="Party"/>
> > <xsd:element name="weight" type="Measure"/>
> >
> > where the Party and Measure are presumably defined as xsd:simpleType
> > datatypes.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Mike Rawlins" <mike@rawlinsecconsulting.com>
> > To: "Eduardo Gutentag" <eduardo.gutentag@sun.com>
> > Cc: <ubl-ndrsc@lists.oasis-open.org>
> > Sent: Monday, November 26, 2001 5:20 PM
> > Subject: Re: [ubl-ndrsc] More comments on Tag Structure paper
> >
> > To be completely consistent with my example, I think what Eduardo
> > means is he prefers:
> >
> > <patientParty>
> >                 <weightMeasure>
> >                 </weightMeasure>
> > </patientParty>
> >
> > to
> >
> > <patientParty>
> >                 <patientPartyweightMeasure>
> >                 </patientPartyweightMeasure>
> > </patientParty>
> >
> > At any rate, I think he agrees with my suggestion of omitting the
> > object class name.
> >
> > Eduardo Gutentag wrote:
> >
> > > This brings up something I queried Eve about last week and she
> > suggested I bring
> > > this up in this forum. Unfortunately I have not had time until now.
> > >
> > > Why are we, in an XML-centric activity, even considering things like
> > > <patientPartyWeightMeasure>? I can see the need for this in
> > environments
> > > where the "markup" is flat, but in XML? Why not deal simply with
> > > <Patient>
> > >         <Party>
> > >                 <Weight>
> > >                         <Measure>
> > >                         </Measure>
> > >                 </Weight>
> > >         </Party>
> > > </Patient>
> > >
> > > where the hierarchy gives you all you need in terms of semantics,
> > reusability, etc.?
> > >
> > > How can one reuse <patientPartyWeightMeasure>? No way.
> > >
> > > If there is a need to map to some other method, doing it by
> > accumulating
> > > parents of a given element should be quite trivial.
> > >
> > > Can someone throw some light on this? Is there some lore behind this
> > that
> > > I'm ignorant of? Seems to me the only reason this is being
> > contemplated is
> > > that's the way it's always been done - and that's not good enough,
> > IMHO.
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Mike Rawlins wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I basically favor Mark's option 1, but with some variations,
> > > > completions, and comments.
> > > >
> > > > Option 1 is incomplete in that it specifies how element (etc.)
> > names are
> > > > to be constructed using the assigned representation term, but it
> > doesn't
> > > > say anything about names for the component parts.  For example, we
> > might
> > > > have a basic information entity of patientPartyWeightMeasure.  The
> > > > approach only gives us a tag for the "content" part of the
> > information,
> > > > but not for the unit of measure associated with every item that
> > has a
> > > > representation type of measure.  Assuming that the "content" is
> > the
> > > > element content and other components of the representation term
> > are
> > > > expressed as XML attributes (an approach we might want to
> > consider, but
> > > > that's a different discussion), do we say:
> > > >
> > > > <patientPartyWeightMeasure
> > uom="KGM">140</patientPartyWeightMeasure>
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > > <patientPartyWeightMeasure
> > > > unitOfMeasure="KGM">140</patientPartyWeightMeasure>
> > > >
> > > > or
> > > >
> > > > <patientPartyWeightMeasure
> > xxx="KGM">140</patientPartyWeightMeasure>
> > > >
> > > > where xxx is something else as yet undefined?
> > > >
> > > > I also favor an approach where the "Object Class" portion of the
> > name is
> > > > omitted for the children.  For example, instead of having:
> > > >
> > > > <patientPartyDetails>
> > > >     <patientPartyNameText> ...
> > > >
> > > > we have
> > > >
> > > > <patientPartyDetails>
> > > >     <nameText>
> > > >
> > > > The latter approach is much less verbose and allows an XML schema
> > > > representation where the CC might be a type (like party) and all
> > we need
> > > > to do is declare or extend the type for the BIEs (like
> > patientParty).
> > > > Otherwise, we have to declare each and every <mumblePartyNameText>
> > in
> > > > the schemas and have practically *no* reuse at the XML syntax
> > level.
> > > >
> > > > Finally, though I don't have as strong preferences on this and
> > can't
> > > > provide as good a rationale, I favor dropping the representation
> > term
> > > > part of the name unless it is needed to avoid duplication.  Saying
> > > > "partyNameText" instead of "partyName" seems overly verbose and
> > adds
> > > > little value if the information is understood in context.  A
> > developer
> > > > can always look at the element or type definition if the data type
> > is
> > > > not clearly understood from a knowledge of the business data.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> > > > www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> > > >
> > > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> > > > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
> > >
> > > --
> > > Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail:
> > eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM
> > > XML Technology Center          |         Phone:  (510) 986-3651
> > x73651
> > > Sun Microsystems Inc.          |
> >
> > --
> > Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> > www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
> > To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> > manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------
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> 
> --
> Michael C. Rawlins, Rawlins EC Consulting
> www.rawlinsecconsulting.com
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> To subscribe or unsubscribe from this elist use the subscription
> manager: <http://lists.oasis-open.org/ob/adm.pl>

-- 
Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail: eduardo.gutentag@Sun.COM
XML Technology Center          |         Phone:  (510) 986-3651
Sun Microsystems Inc.          |


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