NDR SC Minutes April 2 2003

["Mavis Cournane" <mavis.cournane@cognitran.com>]

Dear all
please find attached the minutes from today's concall.

--------------------------
1.  Roll Call and Welcome from the chair (Mavis), assignment of co-chair to
take minutes.

Eve Maler
Eduardo Gutentag
Mark Crawford
Lisa Seaburg
Gunther Stuhec
Mavis Cournane
Kris Ketels
Mike Grimley
Dan Vint
Chee Kai Chin
Jim Wilson y:55
Jon Bosak y:55

quorum achieved.

Note: The concall today started at 16:30 GMT which was actually 7:30 PST due
to an oversight. Callers were not aware that Summer Time had changed this.
By next week's call we will have reverted to our usual time which is 8:30
PST and 16:30 GMT.


2.  Acceptance of minutes from the previous meeting.
http://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/ubl-ndrsc/200303/msg00062.html
Accepted the minutes.
3.  Adoption of agenda/schedule planning

4. Review priorities and assignment of work items (Mavis/Lisa/Mark)
The Local vs Global will delay the release of NDR.
A+ NDR document update (in progress)
A Code list rules and schema template - (in progress, discussed and
formulated more rules in this call). Lisa will get together with Eve and
Arofan to try and get this finalized as possible to get that done. Lisa has
put an action item in Kavi and will have this done in 2 weeks. She has some
feedback from LCSC and is waiting on more.
A Embedded documentation (in progress)
A Local vs. global elements - (rediscussion closed on March 17th. Discussed
further in this call). What has been the result of talking to Karl. Jon talk
to Karl about using OASIS comment list.

Jon: This is our strategy, and it changes the debate deadline for Local vs.
Global.  We extend again the deadline until after the London meeting?  We
are going to make an attempt at getting agreement before London.  We will
continue our elist discussion.

Karl and Jamie does not see how this can be done on an Oasis List. Mark
suggested an LMI list. It is still under discussion. They are unhappy with
this. One alternative would be to use the two lists. Eduardo believes this i
s a liaison

A Namespace rules (getting into NDR main doc). Bill has sent the modnam ver
paper v08. He cannot be the editor of this document any longer. Lisa will
take a quick look at it and then pass it on to convert it in to normative
text.
A Versioning rules (getting into NDR main doc) - in progress
A Context Methodology (only comments from Mark so far, to be discussed
further next week). Eduardo has not sent the email yet. All that we will
have by the time of the release is the guidelines. There will be a call on
this at 8am PST on Tues. Contact Eduardo for further details.
B Common Core Components documentation - (in progress, Gunther is speaking
directly with reviewers of this in San Diego this week. Will have a call
with Mavis next week to put it all together). Document was divided in to
Core Component Types and Data Types. Gunther thinks we should wait until the
F2F. Gunther would like to finalize this until the F2F meeting and present
it during the F2F paper. Mavis and Lisa will help finalize it.
B Containership (to be put first on the agenda for next week)


6. Containership
Deferred - Arofan not on the call.
Arofan describes he would like to have some containers for ocurrences like
lineItems and would be useful for XPATH and showing XML instances in
browsers. If we have all lineitems in a container would be useful.
For the Assembly of business documents it would be very useful to have
containers. If we would like to establish containers in the schema we should
use the xsd:group. GUnther has put a sample schema in his document. Gunther
believes his proposal can coincide with Arofan.
DV: Agrees with Arofan and also sees Gunther's point. I would agree if we
were maintaining as schemas by hand.
G: There is not a need for them yet. I have seen some user's would like to
assemble these documents not in Excel but also in some XML tools.
E: The two issues are orthogonal.
DVIf you are trying to do something there is nothing that allows you to
extend a group. They are hard to add together too. It is not possible to
convert them back to complex Types, if two groups make up an element you
can't role them back in to a complex type.
G; I will check that again as maybe this would not make it very useful to
use xsd:group.
G: Will contact Arofan and we will have discussion of this on the next
concall.

7. Issues from last week's call
  a.. Common Atribute and Attribute Groups - Lisa
  b.. Placeholder IDs for everything including CCTS and CCDs.  See comment
3.5. This was from Garret arising out of a discussion with Gunther. Gunther
has removed the IDs and the issue is closed.
In general IDs Library is looking to us for Guidance. This needs to be
discussed. How do you use the UBL IDs, Library started to put a UBL ID to
every single item in their spreadsheet including reusable stuff. We need
some details in the NDR document on this.
G: If we define IDs should I put that in Core Component Types again?
L: I don't know, we have to make that decision.
M: We will be donating our work to CEFACT, the UBL products will remain
intact within ATG as the preferred document centric solution.
  c.. We need to have something in the NDR document regarding IDs on.
They are not really talking about IDs but more an identification tag.
J: Is there a rule for the ID on a schema element. Are we talking about the
schema element or each individual element.
M: It is a bit of metadata about the BIE and keeps track of the BIES in the
registry. The final CEFACT number will look different to this temporary
number.
E: I don't this is trivial. My understanding of what has been said somehow
this ID attributes leach in to the schema and when you produce a docum,ent
out of them the values of those IDs are the values of the IDs in the
document and thus this does not give you uniqueness.
L: Every spreadsheet row had a different numbers and even in reuse they were
getting different numbers. Part of the issue with LCSC is tools.
M: I don't think it should be too critical and should just be part of the
documentation. Gunther is using the temporary CC documentation number.
It is not necessary to put the ID into the schema but in to the CCTS
documentation or in to the embedded documentation file
E: If it does not leach in to the schema it does not do so in to the
documents and this solves my issue.
C: I think it is good to have an ID
E: I think it is good to have an ID attribute in some places but not in the
schema with a fixed value.
L: It is up to Gunther to move this in the script. I can put all IDs into
the CCTS definition element and add an attribute UBLID attribute.


8. Common Core Components (Gunther)
Mavis and Lisa will help finalize this with Gunther for discussion at the
F2F.
9. Adjourned 18:30 GMT
-----------------------------------
Mavis Cournane
Cognitran Ltd.