Re: [ubl-psc] Fwd: Re: a tax issue!

[Jon Bosak <bosak@pinax.com>]

Following the conventions that I've used for the (yet-to-be-distributed)
common library revisions, the definitions suggested by Tim would be:

   Tax Category. Tier Range. Text

      Where a tax is tiered, the range of taxable amounts that
      determines the rate of tax applicable to this tax category.

   Tax Category. Tier Rate. Percent

      Where a tax is tiered, the tax rate that applies within the
      specified range of taxable amounts for this tax category.

   Tax Subtotal. Tier Range. Text

      Where a tax is tiered, the range of taxable amounts that
      determines the rate of tax applicable to this tax subtotal.

   Tax Subtotal. Tier Rate. Percent

      Where a tax is tiered, the tax rate that applies within a
      specified range of taxable amounts for this tax subtotal.

I will use these provisional definitions in the common library
spreadsheet that will soon be circulated to the subcommittees for
review.

Jon

Tim McGrath wrote:
>   Here is the response we got from the ex-Tax XML TC participants with
> respect to the Tax Tier question.
>
> The Model Andy refers to is the OASIS Indirect Tax Reference Model
> Version 2.0:
> https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/download.php/25886/taxxml-indirect_tax-2.0-reference_model-wd-07.pdf
>
> We spent quite some time and effort to align UBL 2.0 with their model so
> it should be familiar to us.
>
> There is also some comments on their mail archive that says...
>> For a simple percentage-tax the name/identifier of the relevant tax
>> structure for ease of understanding might be just that rate ("5%"
>> instead of
>> something like "LowRate"), but for a tiered structure, it would have
>> to be a
>> name of that structure and not the rate that happens to apply in the
>> particular situation. The actual numeric rate resulting from the
>> application
>> of the function (you might say an intermediary result of the calculation)
>> may or may not be something you want to include in the document along with
>> the resulting tax amount.
>
> Based on this I propose we make the definitions:
>
> Tax Category. Tier Range. Text
>
>       Where a tax is tiered, the range of taxable amounts that define
> the rate of tax to apply for the tax category.
>
>    Tax Category. Tier Rate. Percent
>
>       Where a tax is tiered, the tax rate that applies within a
> specified range of taxable amounts for the tax category.
>
>
>    Tax Subtotal. Tier Range. Text
>
>       Where a tax is tiered, the range of taxable amounts that define
> the rate of tax to apply for the tax subtotal.
>
>    Tax Subtotal. Tier Rate. Percent
>
>       Where a tax is tiered, the tax rate that applies within a
> specified range of taxable amounts for the tax subtotal.
>
>
> In addition we should put into the main UBL documentation a definition
> of tiered tax:
>    *Tiered Tax *– A rate of /Tax/ that varies according to a level of
> the taxable basis within a set of defined ranges.  For example, Sales
> Taxes may be applied as:
> Total sale under $30 = 5%
> Total sale $30 to $149.99 = 7.5%
> Total sale $150 or more = 10%
>
> Where "Total sale under $30" is the name of the Tier Range and "5%" is
> the Tier Rate.
>
>
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: 	Re: a tax issue!
> Date: 	Thu, 6 Sep 2012 20:57:22 +0100
> From: 	Andy Greener <andy@gid.co.uk>
> To: 	Harm-Jan van Burg <harmjan@vanburg.net>
> CC: 	Michael Roytman <michael.roytman@vertexinc.com>,
> tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com
>
>
>
> Harm,
>
> Very good to hear from you after all this time! I hope you are well (and
> Michael too). As you will see from my .sig I am still working for HMRC
> (just!), but doing other (XBRL and Inline XBRL-related) things too.
>
> I think this query from Tim relates to the Indirect Tax reference model
> - there is a section on tax types which contains the following structure
> definition:
>
> ·       *Tiered Tax *– A rate of /Tax/ that varies according to a level
> of the taxable basis within a set of defined ranges.
>
> -       *Tier Range *– The range of taxable amounts that define the rate
> of /Tax/ to apply.
>
> -       *Tier Tax Rate* – The tax rate that applies within a specified
> range of taxable amounts.
>
>
> It is not an income tax concept, it is an indirect tax concept (i.e.
> something that is applied to a business transaction, and therefore
> relevant to UBL). Does Tim have the Indirect tax Model doc? It would
> probably help a lot! I don't have a final version, just drafts, but he
> ought to be able to obtain the Final Rec of version 2.0 from OASIS....
>
> I'm pretty sure that it refers to a duty or indirect tax of some
> description that is levied at different rates depending on the value of
> the transaction. This type of indirect tax is not common, but we must
> have found examples of it being used in the real world or it wouldn't be
> in the model!
>
> I hope that helps.
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 5 Sep 2012, at 08:30, Harm-Jan van Burg <harmjan@vanburg.net
> <mailto:harmjan@vanburg.net>> wrote:
>
>> Hello Guys,
>>
>> Long time no see. Seems UBL took up the tax reference model of our old
>> group. Tim and I are both UNCEFACT vice chairs now so we had some "talks"
>>
>> Can you help him out?
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Harm Jan van Burg
>>
>> ps I am currently try to set up a tax domain in UN/CEFACT after the
>> old model we had in the past!
>>
>> Begin doorgestuurd bericht:
>>
>>> *Van: *Tim McGrath <tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com
>>> <mailto:tim.mcgrath@documentengineeringservices.com>>
>>> *Onderwerp: **a tax issue!*
>>> *Datum: *5 september 2012 05:38:26 CEST
>>> *Aan: *Harm-Jan van Burg <harmjan@vanburg.net
>>> <mailto:harmjan@vanburg.net>>
>>>
>>> We are currently trying to update some of the element defintions in
>>> UBL 2.1 and one thing we are struggling with is the element known as
>>> Tax Category/Tier Range.
>>>
>>> I suspect it appears following discussion with the TaxML folks - so i
>>> figured i would ask you.
>>>
>>> It is defined as "Where a tax is tiered, the range of tiers applied
>>> in calculating a tax subtotal applying to this tax category."  but
>>> none of use can think of how this range of tiers applies to business
>>> taxes (we think maybe for income taxes there are "tiers").
>>>
>>> Do you have any ideas? or can you point me to someone who might be
>>> able to explain what this might.
>>>
>> <tim_mcgrath.vcf>
>>
>
> --
> Andy Greener
> Enterprise Architect
> Business Tax Programme and Strategy & Architecture
> Information Management Systems, HMRC
>
> andy.greener@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk <mailto:andy.greener@hmrc.gsi.gov.uk> /
> andy@gid.co.uk <mailto:andy@gid.co.uk>
> 07836 331933
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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