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Subject: Re: [ubl] Questions and commnets regarding UBL Reusable V1.0 (latterhalf)
1.Questions or comments about whole business documentsIt is not strictly necessary to call the UBLName (element) PartyID as long as the ID is the identifier of the object class (container). This is because of the hierarchical nature of XPath in XML documents. The ID will be within a Party (Party/ID). So it has a unique XPath name that an application can use. The reason we do this abbrevation is to keep element names short - but I agree that without the 'parent' it is ambiguous to us mere humans. Of course, the Dictionary Entry Name has the full name (for example Party. Identifier).
1.1Name of ID (Recommendation to improve)
There are many IDs in business documents. Those IDs are BBIE, and are used for different uses. The UBL names of these BBIE had better to be changed to specific names. I named the equivalent Japanese business terms like the following recommendation names.
1.2Differences between ‘ID’ and ‘Code’. (Question)This is possibly the longest running question - not just in UBL but in any business vocabulary. Two years ago we decided that there was no common understanding of the difference and we made up our own.
There are many BIEs of ‘ID’ and ‘Code’ in UBL business documents. What is the policy or rule or classification between them?
1.3 OrderLine and LineItem (Question)An OrderLine is as requested on an Order document. However, if this requested Item is chnage changed (either by the Buyer or Seller) we want to retain the original Order Line and note this as a different Line Item. In effect, OrderLine is a mechanism to describe to chnaging state of a requested item. Most of the information we normally expect on an Order Line appears in a Line Item - so what you suggest would be fine expect we then need a way a chaining together any substutitions.
What is the difference between OrderLine and LineItem in view point of usage?
If the BIEs in OrderLine (ABIE) would be integrated to the LineItem (ABIE), and the OrderLine (ABIE) would be deleted, would it occur some inconveniences?
1.4 Some ASBIEs don’t have associated ABIE.and
Many ASBIEs have the associated ABIEs in Reusable BIEs. But some ASBIEs don’t have associated ABIEs. I don’t understand this reason. Is this bug or something?
1.5 Some ABIEs don’t have associated ASBIE.
Some ABIEs are not referred by other ABIEs via ASBIE. To say another word, some ABIEs don’t have associated ASBIE.
2.1LineItemwe see this as TaxTotalAmount being re-used in both LineItem and in Order. It is the same BBIE used in two different contexts. In the schemas they both refer to...
(1)TaxTotalAmount (BBIE) had better be changed to LineItemTaxTotalAmount. Because there is TaxTotalAmount (BBIE) in Order (business document).
(2)The definition of both MaximumBackOrderQuantity and MinimumBackOrderQuantity says ‘customer’. This word should be changed to ‘seller party’. The word ‘customer’ is not used at any other definitions. And the word ‘customer’ is ambiguous for definition in the UBL specification.I would agree with this. it further demonstrates why we need a controlled vocabulary as part of the transaltion process.
2.2LineReferenceIt is not referred to by any other ASBIE without qualification. In fact the ASBIEs DespatchLineReference and ReceiptLineReference associate the ABIE InvoiceLine with this ABIE.
(1)This ABIE is not referred by any other ASBIE as name.
(2)I cannot understand the meaning and usage of this ABIE.
2.3 LotIdentificationI dont think we mean the same as cancel. The lot identification would be the sort of identifier that RFID does. identifying a specific occurrence of an item. We may order a specific make and model of vehicle but the lot identifier would be the chassis number of one(and only one) actual car. When we say recall we mean that this provides traceability. A car manufacturer can recall a range of chassis numbers, etc. So a recall is not a cancellation but a request to send back the item.
(1)The definition uses word ‘recall’. Is ‘recall’ same to ‘cancel’? If so, don’t you think the word had better to be changed to ‘cancel’?
2.4 OrderLineit would depend on which ASBIE within Line Item is used. Seller Proposed Substitute and Seller Substituted would mean the seller set this status, Buyer Proposed Substitute would mean the buyer did.
(1)Is SubstitutionStatusCode a result by seller party or an instruction by the buyer party or both?
(2)There is no ABIE referred from SellerProposedSubstitutionLineItem (ASBIE).Once again, these are qualified ASBIEs (both re-use Line Item as the ABIE)
(3)There is no ABIE referred from BuyerProposedSubstitutionLineItem (ASBIE).
2.5 OrderReference
(1)Is DocumentDocumentStatusCode mistaken? The characters ‘Document’ are doubled.
(2)Is IssueIssueDateDate mistaken? The characters ‘Issue’ and ‘Date’ are doubled.
2.7 PartyC/o is short hand for "care of". This means when a Party is not the actual Party we mean but this Party is acting as their agent.
(1)I cannot understand MarkCareIndicator. What is C/O in Definition?
(2)I cannot understand MarkAttentionIndicator. What is FAO in Definition?FAO is "for attention of". This means we want to explicity denote this Party is to deal with the matter.
(3)The Cardinality of following ASBIEs are ‘0..1’. I think that this means nothing or once. But the definition says ‘one or more’. I think that this is inconsistent.the definition is incorrect - the ASBIE can only appear once (or not at all). However, within the ABIE referred to, PartyName, there can be many names.
PartyName
Addressthe definition is incorrect - a party can only have one Address (or not at all).
Contactthe definition is correct - it says "associates (optionally) the party with information on the contact" - nothing about 'one or more'.
the definition is incorrect - a party can only have one Language (or not at all).
Language
2.8PartyTaxSchemaIt is an Address qualified as being the Registration address.
(1)There is no ABIE referred from RegistrationAddress (ASBIE).
2.9PaymentMeansA Card Account may be a debit or credit account type.
(1)I cannot understand the difference between CardAccount and CreditAccount.
(2)There is no ABIE referred from PayerFinancialAccount (ASBIE).It is a Financial Account qualified as being that if the Payer
(3)There is no ABIE referred from PayeeFinancialAccount (ASBIE).It is a Financial Account qualified as being that if the Payee
2.10PaymentTermsIt is a Period qualified as being that for the Settlement
(1) There is no ABIE referred from SettlementPeriod (ASBIE).
2.11ReceiptLineThe terms comes from the UN/CEFACT Transport TBG (I think). It is the logistical equivalent of an Stock Keeping Unit (SKU) for Inventory. That is, the smallest unit that can be shipped around.
(1)What is THU (Transport Handling Unit) in Definition?
(2)What is OrderItemIdentification?It is a reference to the item (or items) originally ordered for which we are acknowledging receipt.
(3)There is no ABIE referred from OrderItemIdentification (ASBIE).It is an Item Identification qualified as being what was Ordered. (Note that this is not OrderItemIdentification but OrderedItemIdentification).
2.12SecondaryHazardThe definition could be better - it is not an identifier. I would propose "additional information regarding the hazardous substance. Can be used to specify information such as the type of regulatory requirements that apply to a description."
(1) Is Definition of Extension (BBIE) correct? The Definition says ‘identifier’.
2.13SellerPartyWhat we mean here is that each party may have their own way of identifiying their trading partners within their internal systems. For exmaple, a creditor's system may give the buyer a code number to use for their suppliers (and vice versa). often these appear in trading documents. They are commonly used when two trading parties may have several different dealings with each other and require an allocation to different parts of the business.
(1)I cannot clearly understand BuyerAssignedAccountID. The definition says ‘to allow integration with a back office system’. Is there any relation between AccountID and back office system?
(2) I cannot clearly understand SellerAssignedAccountID.
2.14ShipmentI think it is in Ordered Shipment.
(1)This ABIE is not referred by any other ASBIE as name.
(2)There is no ABIE referred from TransportContract (ASBIE).It is a Contract qualified as being that for the Transport of the goods.
2.15ShipmentStageIt is a Party qualified as being the Carrier of the goods.
(1)There is no ABIE referred from CarrierParty (ASBIE).
(2)There is no ABIE referred from TransitPeriod (ASBIE).It is a Period qualified as being that for the Transit of the goods.
2.16TransportEquipmentTransport Equipment is almost always a shipping container. So this means a full, empty or partially full container.
(1)The Definition of FullnessIndicationCode says ‘a piece of transport equipment is full, empty or partially full’. What is the meaning if the transport equipment is full?
2.17TransportHandlingUnityes. the ReceivedHandlingUnitReceiptLine should say "associates the Transport Handling Unit with one or more receipt lines on a receipt advice."
(1)The Definition of both HandlingUnitDespatchLine and ReceivedHandlingUnitReceiptLine is same. Is this mistaken?
(2)There is no ABIE referred from HandlingUnitDespatchLine (ASBIE).It is a Despatch Line qualified as being that for the Handling Unit
(3)There is no ABIE referred from ActualPackage (ASBIE).It is a Package qualified as being that the Actual package. That is the package(s) the receipient will see when they open the transport handling unit.
(4)There is no ABIE referred from ReceivedHandlingUnitReceiptLine (ASBIE).It is a Receipt Line of the Handling Unit being received.
3. OthersNormally this would be the buyer, but we acknowledge that the party accepting receipt of the goods may not be the Buyer. So we called this the Delivery Recipient. Perhaps "buyer (or their agent)" may have been clearer.
3.1Business process regarding DespatchAdvice and ReceiptAdvice
I cannot clearly understand the business process of DespatchAdvice and ReceiptAdvice. What is Delivery Recipient concretely?
(3)There is no ABIE referred from ShippingContract (ASBIE).It is a Contract qualified as being that for the Shipping of the goods.
Dear members of UBL TC, I have translated the latter half part of UBL Reusable V1.0 into Japanese Language. I have sent the translated UBL Reusable V1.0 spread sheet to you at the previous e-mail. In the procedure of translation, I have had many questions and comments regarding BIEs in UBL Reusables (the latter half part). The questions and comments are improved by some comments presented by some JPLSC members. The attached document is the questions and comments written in English.. We are happy if you will reply to these questions and comments. Best Regards, Yukinori Saito ------------------------------------------- Yukinori Saito Fuji Electric Information Service Co., Ltd. (FIS) e-mail: saito-yukinori@fujielectric.co.jp Tel: +81-3-5435-7333 Fax: +81-3-5435-7513 -------------------------------------------
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-- regards tim mcgrath phone: +618 93352228 postal: po box 1289 fremantle western australia 6160
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