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Subject: Re: [ubl] Discussion of substitution groups


Now my personal argument restraining
use of substitution groups is that UBL
should happily lead, yes, but not run
ahead of tool support, and adoption.

There are still problems here and there
in tools' support of substitution groups
(particularly in the area of the extension
of the enumerated lists e.g. via xsd union).

It might be an advantage to use the fact
that UBL's next release is to be a major
one to show restraint and provide some
time before using sg's (especially with
xsd union) while tools, etc continue to
improve (and perhaps while W3C
develops further conformance tests).

In other words, though now I'd welcome
substitution groups without abstracts as
the main way UBL can use to provide
inherited minor versions, I'd also
welcome a delay before the first such
minor version, if this mechanism is used.

All the best

Steve


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Stephen Green" <stephen_green@seventhproject.co.uk>
To: <ubl@lists.oasis-open.org>
Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:41 PM
Subject: Re: [ubl] Discussion of substitution groups


> And at the risk of saying too much,
> a look at the alternative:
> XSD without derivation looks to me
> like XML without eXtensibility, a
> misnomer. It would put us back to the
> days of csv and fixed width (which some
> still argue is where they'd rather be :-(  ).
>
> XML does provide a major overhead
> to developers and those who fund them.
> I'd argue then that without the promised
> facilitation of controlled extensibility
> (without the namespace change seems to
> me to be without the control) there is
> little return on investment in terms of
> software/standards features.
>
> If XSD is the de facto way to use XML
> then I'd argue that it seems more and
> more that substtution groups are
> becoming the de facto way to use
> XSD to provide eXtensibility in XML,
> especially when faced with a library
> standard such as UBL.
>
> All the best
>
> Steve
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Stephen Green" <stephen_green@seventhproject.co.uk>
> To: "CRAWFORD, Mark" <MCRAWFORD@lmi.org>; <ubl@lists.oasis-open.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 12:29 PM
> Subject: Re: [ubl] Discussion of substitution groups
>
>
> > >Exactly what is gained by using type derivation rather
> > >than just defining a new type that replaces the old in our schema?
> >
> > >Mark
> >
> > 1. control of extension and restriction
> >     using the XSD derivation rules
> >     is enforced by compliant tools
> >
> > 2. the XSD derivation provides a trail
> >    - a trace back to the types
> >     from which derivations were made
> >     (helps with audit requirements, etc)
> > 2a. compliant tools provide a better,
> >     richer experience to developers
> >
> > 3. this is becoming a more ubiquitous
> >     way to extend/restrict - audit
> >     rules tend to expect financial software
> >     to follow such ubiquitous
> >     software designs and methodologies
> >     (in my limited experience)
> >
> > 4. people are wanting XML to deliver
> >     on the eXtensible bit (see ubl-dev)
> >
> > 5. software vendors are increasingly
> >     investing in substitution group
> >     support (hence 2a above and more)
> >
> > 6. this delivers on UBL's original
> >     promise of polymorphic inheritance
> >     (albeit at a price of a single rule
> >     about sg's being dropped or qualified)
> >
> > 7. this buys into the benefits of using
> >     global rather than local
> >
> > 8. this best fits the OO development
> >     practises (see JAXB)
> >
> > [ ref  - 'ver' our minor versioning working group recommendation ]
> >
> >
> > I could go on...
> >
> > All the best
> >
> > Steve
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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