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Subject: Re: [PATCH v9] virtio-net: support inner header hash
On Wed, Mar 1, 2023 at 6:36âPM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 01, 2023 at 10:36:41AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 7:05âPM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 11:04:26AM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > On Tue, Feb 28, 2023 at 1:49âAM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 04:35:09PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 3:39âPM Michael S. Tsirkin <mst@redhat.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Mon, Feb 27, 2023 at 12:07:17PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > > > > > Btw, this kind of 1:1 hash features seems not scalable and flexible. > > > > > > > > It requires an endless extension on bits/fields. Modern NICs allow the > > > > > > > > user to customize the hash calculation, for virtio-net we can allow to > > > > > > > > use eBPF program to classify the packets. It seems to be more flexible > > > > > > > > and scalable and there's almost no maintain burden in the spec (only > > > > > > > > bytecode is required, no need any fancy features/interactions like > > > > > > > > maps), easy to be migrated etc. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Prototype is also easy, tun/tap had an eBPF classifier for years. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yea BPF offload would be great to have. We have been discussing it for > > > > > > > years though - security issues keep blocking it. *Maybe* it's finally > > > > > > > going to be there but I'm not going to block this work waiting for BPF > > > > > > > offload. And easily migrated is what BPF is not. > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to make sure we're at the same page. I meant to find a way to > > > > > > allow the driver/user to fully customize what it wants to > > > > > > hash/classify. Similar technologies which is based on private solution > > > > > > has been used by some vendors, which allow user to customize the > > > > > > classifier[1] > > > > > > > > > > > > ePBF looks like a good open-source solution candidate for this (there > > > > > > could be others). But there could be many kinds of eBPF programs that > > > > > > could be offloaded. One famous one is XDP which requires many features > > > > > > other than the bytecode/VM like map access, tailcall. Starting from > > > > > > such a complicated type is hard. Instead, we can start from a simple > > > > > > type, that is the eBPF classifier. All it needs is to pass the > > > > > > bytecode to the device, the device can choose to run it or compile it > > > > > > to what it can understand for classifying. We don't need maps, tail > > > > > > calls and other features. > > > > > > > > > > Until people start asking exactly for maps because they want > > > > > state for their classifier? > > > > > > > > Yes, but let's compare the eBPF without maps with the static feature > > > > proposed here. It is much more scalable and flexible. > > > > > > I looked for some examples of RSS using BPF and only found this: > > > https://github.com/Netronome/bpf-samples/blob/master/programmable_rss/rss_user.c > > > seems to use maps. > > > > Yes and this is also the way we emulate RSS with TUN/TAP via steering > > eBPF support for TUN/TAP. The reason is that it needs to emulate not > > only the hash but also the indirection. If we only replace the hash > > function with the eBPF program but reuse the RSS indirection table, we > > don't need maps. > > How? Add a special helper? We can let the eBPF program return the hash: [eBPF hasing] -> hash value -> [indirection table lookup] Note that if we don't consider future full eBPF offloading, we can start with classical BPF. Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > And it makes sense - if you want > > > > > e.g. load balancing you need stats which needs maps. > > > > > > > > Yes, but we know it's possible to have that (through the XDP offload). > > > > > > Not without a lot more work to make xdp offload happen. > > > > > > > Yes, that's why a simple eBPF RSS hashing program looks much more easier. > > > > Thanks > > Notice that at this point this is no longer a generic BPF - you > are using a special helper. For tunnels I would imagine two tables > could easily turn out to be useful. Then what? Another table? > If yes then I can't say I like where this is going ... > > > > > This is impossible with the approach proposed here. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > We don't need to worry about the security > > > > > > because of its simplicity: the eBPF program is only in charge of doing > > > > > > classification, no other interactions with the driver and packet > > > > > > modification is prohibited. The feature is limited only to the > > > > > > VM/bytecode abstraction itself. > > > > > > > > > > > > What's more, it's a good first step to achieve full eBPF offloading in > > > > > > the future. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > [1] https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/architecture-and-technology/ethernet/dynamic-device-personalization-brief.html > > > > > > > > > > Dave seems to have nacked this approach, no? > > > > > > > > I may miss something but looking at kernel commit, there are few > > > > patches to support that: > > > > > > > > E.g > > > > > > > > commit c7648810961682b9388be2dd041df06915647445 > > > > Author: Tony Nguyen <anthony.l.nguyen@intel.com> > > > > Date: Mon Sep 9 06:47:44 2019 -0700 > > > > > > > > ice: Implement Dynamic Device Personalization (DDP) download > > > > > > > > And it has been used by DPDK drivers. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > MST > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
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