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Subject: Re: [virtio-comment] About the plan of Admin Queue
On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:37âPM Xuan Zhuo <xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> wrote: > > On Wed, 2 Aug 2023 14:15:55 +0800, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com> wrote: > > On Wed, Aug 2, 2023 at 2:01âPM Yui Washizu <yui.washidu@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > On 2023/07/27 17:28, Jason Wang wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 4:20âPM Xuan Zhuo <xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> wrote: > > > >> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 16:03:56 +0800, Jason Wang <jasowang@redhat.com> wrote: > > > >>> On Thu, Jul 27, 2023 at 2:23âPM Xuan Zhuo <xuanzhuo@linux.alibaba.com> wrote: > > > >>>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 14:17:53 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" <lingshan.zhu@intel.com> wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> On 7/27/2023 2:09 PM, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > >>>>>> On Thu, 27 Jul 2023 11:56:32 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" <lingshan.zhu@intel.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>> On 7/27/2023 10:30 AM, Xuan Zhuo wrote: > > > >>>>>>>> On Mon, 3 Jul 2023 12:29:32 +0800, "Zhu, Lingshan" <lingshan.zhu@intel.com> wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>> On 6/30/2023 7:35 PM, Parav Pandit wrote: > > > >>>>>>>>>>> From: virtio-comment@lists.oasis-open.org <virtio-comment@lists.oasis- > > > >>>>>>>>>>> open.org> On Behalf Of Zhu, Lingshan > > > >>>>>>>>>>> Sent: Friday, June 30, 2023 6:33 AM > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Can we let the DPU notify the driver to create a new devicer from the > > > >>>>>>>>>>> backend? > > > >>>>>>>>>> Yes, why not. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The key point is who want to create a new device. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> DPU can come with a certain number of pre-created ADIs, just make > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> sure the orchestration SW is aware of their device IDs. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Cloud often need these devices to be created dynamically, many a time after the host OS is booted. > > > >>>>>>>>>> To be more generic, those devices to be created and connected to the host regardless of the life cycle of the host. > > > >>>>>>>>>> Xuan partly explained it. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> If you want the DPU randomly create ADIs and notify the driver, I > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> think we need interrupt, e.g., re-use config interrupt. But why DPU > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> wants to create and hot plug in a device to a guest? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> Shall the host handle that or DPU pre-create then expose to baremteal > > > >>>>>>>>>>>>> machines? > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In your scenario, the supervisor is on the os, which controls the DPU > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> to create new devices. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> In the cloud scenario, the vendor manager is in the DPU, and the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> entire host is for users. Of course, there are situations where the > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> vendor manager are in the HOST. But for bare metal machines, the host > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> belongs to the customer, the vendor manager is only in the DPU. > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> So when the customers buy a new nic for the host, the vendor manager > > > >>>>>>>>>>>> will plug a device to the host from the DPU. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> I understand once a customer orders a new NIC, you wants to present the NIC > > > >>>>>>>>>>> to the host. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However you only owns the DPU and the customer owns the host, that means > > > >>>>>>>>>>> this creation and hot plug must be transparent to the host and there may not be > > > >>>>>>>>>>> a host driver help handling an interrupt/probe. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> That is ok. when driver is loaded, it would query about its child devices and probe it, if we strictly want to follow SIOV model. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> However this is not PCI which has a tree/switch and can enumerate devices to > > > >>>>>>>>>>> the host by spanning the device across the PCI hierarchy. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> Those enumeration is triggered by the parent PCI device and pci bridge and switch will also discover it. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> To address an ADI, there is only a device_id. > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> SIOV device must have a unique identifier at PCI bus level for sure. > > > >>>>>>>>>> I cannot speak more about it in this forum due to other logistics issue. > > > >>>>>>>>>> But assume that there is PCI level unique identifier for SIOV device that switches on the path will learn about. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>>> So, do you mind share how your DPU offload the device model? What kind of > > > >>>>>>>>>>> device your DPU provide to the host? Lets see whether DPU can mediate this by > > > >>>>>>>>>>> its own? > > > >>>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> It is a virtio nic, blk and other virtio devices for us. > > > >>>>>>>>>> A DPU hotplugs a device, host side either gets interrupt or later gets to know about it when explicitly queries. > > > >>>>>>>>>> There is no mediation per say here, it is just a dpu based SIOV device like a regular PF. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> For non virtio DPU device, I implemented them in Linux for dpus 2 years ago. > > > >>>>>>>>>> You might find a Linux reference model useful at [1]. > > > >>>>>>>>>> A usage model already exists in one OS and in use for non virtio devices. > > > >>>>>>>>>> This certainly works without SIOV unique PCI device identifiers, because DPU (non-host) managed SIOV device spec still does not exist. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> For virtio, I think we should wait for this piece to be defined and leverage that, instead of virtio tc creating its own. > > > >>>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>>> [1] https://github.com/Mellanox/scalablefunctions/wiki > > > >>>>>>>>> well I see SF facing the similar challenge, I can add a command for the > > > >>>>>>>>> driver to query all existing SIOV ADIs of a device, > > > >>>>>>>>> and the device return ADIs id and status. Looks good? and work for you > > > >>>>>>>>> @Xuan? > > > >>>>>>>> Could I have your plan for this? > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> If you do not mind, I'd like to add a command to query VF's info. Such > > > >>>>>>>> as mac, ip, etc. > > > >>>>>>> I think the query commands for SIOV is a little more complex, e.g., > > > >>>>>>> need to report device type and its scale(e.g., features, mq). > > > >>>>>>> There can be thousands of SIOV ADIs and we don't want output flood. > > > >>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> We have discussed implementation a config interrupt to report new > > > >>>>>>> created / deleted > > > >>>>>>> ADIs on the DPU side, therefore there must be a cap contains related > > > >>>>>>> information, > > > >>>>>>> my rough approach of the process is: > > > >>>>>>> 1) a cap contains the total number of existing ADIs and the max dev id > > > >>>>>>> 2) driver queries detailed information of a certain ADI or a bunch of > > > >>>>>>> ADIs in a [dev_id....dev_id2] range. > > > >>>>>> Yes, Admin Queue can obtain the info of the specific one or more devices. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> I am not sure whether a NIC stores its IP > > > >>>>>> IP is the other topic. I want the Admin Queue manage the switch. > > > >>>>>> So the switch know about the IP of every device, and the > > > >>>>>> Admin Queue will has the ability to config the IP of the device inside the > > > >>>>>> switch. > > > >>>>> DPU onboard switch? OVS? Does it beyond virtio spec? > > > >>>> YES. > > > >>> Adding Washizu. > > > >>> > > > >>> We can have a switch/dpa defined in the networking device for sure. > > > >> Yes, I think we should introduce that for the sr-iov. Or for other. > > > > This should be a general one as a switch should be transport independent. > > > > > > > >> I would like to know who is doing this? > > > > Washizu, could you confirm if you want to do this or not? > > > > > > > > > Does this mean adding a switch definition to the virtio spec? > > > > > > > > > If so, it will be necessary for the implementation of my plan, > > > > > > but it may take time (probably several months?) to get started, > > > > > > as I'm currently working on another task (virtio-net SR-IOV feature in > > > qemu). > > > > > > Anyone is welcome to work on adding the switch definition in the meantime, > > > > > > it's completely fine with me. > > > > > > I think I'll work on that if no one has finished the work. > > > > Ok, great, I think we need to start this by considering reusing one of > > the existing DPA spec. (For example, ofdpa? or any other?) > > We have a need on this area. I want to start this work now. > > Could you give me the link of the spec? I'm not sure this is the best one, we can hear from others. I mention it since it has an emulation code that is done in Qemu (rocker switch). The spec is: https://docs.broadcom.com/doc/12378911 (not sure this is the recent one though). Thanks > > Thanks > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >> Another question, @Jason are you referring to a new device type or a > > > >> new virtio-net feature. > > > > Extending virtio-net should be fine, did you see any issues for this? > > > > > > > >>>> For SIOV, I think this is MUST. > > > >>> A learning bridge would be fine as a starter. It's better not to > > > >>> couple new scalable capability with any device specific features. > > > >>> > > > >>>> Maybe you have one simple implementation. > > > >>>> But you have to solve the IP steering. So admin queue should has the ability > > > >>>> to config the IP steering. > > > >>> I think not. Those L2/LN tables/filters are networking specific. > > > >> Let us assume that there is a switch/bridge firstly. > > > >> The VFs may be passed to different VMs. > > > >> > > > >> I also think this is the networking specific. But I want to config > > > >> the ip for every vf from the pf. > > > > What do you mean by ip here (e.g who is the user for this ip?) > > > > > > > >> Because the user of the vf may be unreliable. > > > >> We need a manager to config the ip for every vf. > > > > Did you mean you're using a tunnel or not? > > > > > > > >> > > > >>> Control virtqueue is better than admin virtqueue here. > > > >> by cq? > > > >> > > > >> What case? > > > > We've already used control virtqueue for steering. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > >> Thanks. > > > >> > > > >>> Thanks > > > >>> > > > >>>> Thanks. > > > >>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> Thanks. > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>>>> Thanks. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>>> Thanks > > > >>>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > > > >>>>>>>> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > > > >>>>>>>> to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > > > >>>>>>>> before posting. > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>>>>> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>>>>>> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>>>>>> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>>>>>> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > > > >>>>>>>> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > > > >>>>>>>> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > > > >>>>>>>> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > > >>>>>>>> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > > >>>>>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > > > >>>>> OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License 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subscription is required > > > >>>> before posting. > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Subscribe: virtio-comment-subscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>> Unsubscribe: virtio-comment-unsubscribe@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>> List help: virtio-comment-help@lists.oasis-open.org > > > >>>> List archive: https://lists.oasis-open.org/archives/virtio-comment/ > > > >>>> Feedback License: https://www.oasis-open.org/who/ipr/feedback_license.pdf > > > >>>> List Guidelines: https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/mailing-lists > > > >>>> Committee: https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/virtio/ > > > >>>> Join OASIS: https://www.oasis-open.org/join/ > > > >>>> > > > > > > > > > This publicly archived list offers a means to provide input to the > > OASIS Virtual I/O Device (VIRTIO) TC. > > > > In order to verify user consent to the Feedback License terms and > > to minimize spam in the list archive, subscription is required > > before posting. > > > > Subscribe: 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