RE: [virtio] [PATCH] virtio-net subcommittee proposal

[Parav Pandit <parav@nvidia.com>]

> From: Halil Pasic <pasic@linux.ibm.com>
> Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:08 AM

> Well
> https://www.oasis-open.org/policies-guidelines/tc-process-2017-05-
> 26/#subcommittees
> says "The deliverables of the SC are made only to the TC for such further action
> as the TC may elect", so formally there was not degree of freedom in this
> regard.
>
I interpret it as,
SC produced deliverables are for TC to take "action".
Action = resolution = vote.

The intermediate work such as requirements, design, patches are accessible to the TC to comment/feedback to SC.
Since Net SC didn't raise TC to vote for such work, there is no explicit action needed by TC in such case.

So, I don't see any freedom is lost.

And those TC members who have interest in net sc work, will join net SC anyway.

> Please note that this is scoped to "the standard functionality across devices" for
> some reason.
>
How RSS hashing done or how/when packet time stamp done is related to sound device?
I likely misunderstanding your above point.
Can you please explain?
 
> Then I don't understand the benefit of establishing a "Net SC", and possibly a "a
> broader virtio-net community" around the "Net SC" for the people that are not
> "Net SC" members but would like to partitipate in shaping "virtio-net".
>
Again, Net SC is not taking away the ability for them to contribute/comment, because net sc uses the OASIS open forums.

> Then why not accept Stefan's proposal? In my opinion it has the __benefit__ of
> being less bureaucratic.
>
Please avoid implying that OASIS open defined subcommittee make things bureaucratic.
OASIS open and this proposal thinks the opposite.

Please re-read the first email SOP. Net SC's charter is technical.

I think I missed to include the note that Net SC keep the existing virtio spec changes by non virtio TC members open.
(not the role or intention of Net SC to define what its parent virtio tc can/cannot do).

> > Doing calls at virtio TC level requires change in the standing rule.
> > "The Virtio TC has adopted a standing rule to conduct business only by
> electronic ballot, without Meetings"
> >
> 
> I'm pretty sure, you misunderstood here something, Parav.
>
Yes, I misunderstood.

I understood now that electronic form is only for the ballot purpose.
Rest work doesn't need it, this is very good.

> I do see why do you want to have some sort of a tag. But I fail to understand
> why do you insist on the tag being "Net SC", and on establishing more or less
> formal processes around it.
> 
In other industry consortiums that I am directly/indirectly involved such as siov, pci, nvme etc,
It is named as "working group".
On asking OASIS about it, they suggested the equivalent is subcommittee in OASIS for such focused project work.

> In my understanding, what you really want is a "virtio-net interest group".

If you care a lot for English, you trivialize it a lot by calling it out an "interest group".
so I must say it is not a "interest group".
It is a "work group" to produce work as part of virtio tc.
(without taking away ability for non TC members to contribute to virtio spec).

> According to my understanding of how the standardization process for virtio
> works, it does not impose restrictions on the process of coming up with a
> proposal (patches), nor is the circle of entities who are allowed to submit
> proposals. I believe all of the TC members would be very happy about very high
> quality proposals that require no discussion, no changes, and can be voted in
> without doing more iterations. It would indeed reduce workload. I don't thing
> that talking to other people before submitting a proposal or in between
> submitting proposals is disallowed. But that is just my opinion and I'm no
> lawyer.
> 
> In summary, this "virtio-net subcommitee" is at idea, in its current form, and
> with the current arguments presented has my NAK.

As I responded to Stefan,

Net SC intents to do structured work in good spirit.

I don't see Net SC can success in execution if you or Stefan see it as separate body from virtio TC.
(and net sc is not/cannot be different part from virtio tc).

In our view those existing virtio TC members who really care for improving the virio-net as we listed in mission & SOP, should join the net SC.

Being new to virtio tc, I am familiar with contribution of Michael and Jason Wang in improving virio net.
So, a humble request to both to join if they can help to improve the pace towards described mission, SOP.

And same humble request to all virtio tc members who wants to give early feedback (during requirements, design, WIP spec patches) to Net SC, should also join.