Re: XSLT-CONFORMANCE Mailing List

[Eduardo Gutentag <eduardo.gutentag@eng.sun.com>]

Terry Allen wrote:
> 
> Eduardo wrote:
> | This is the rationale behind what would appear to be a heretical stand:
> |
> | a) a group of Oasis members get together and say "hey, wouldn't it be
> | cool if we had a TC for foo?" They may decide on the spot to propose
> | one, or they may spend months discussing among themselves what foo is
> | supposed to be. Should this be archived? No, how could it, this is
> | all informal discussions well beyond the pale of the process.
> 
> I think you're talking here about a stage before the ACTC has
> approved setup of a list, so there's nothing to archive.

Right, that's what I said.

> 
> | b) There may or may not be an Oasis-sanctioned preliminary meeting
> | of the people involved in (a); however, at some point,
> |
> | c) one of the above Oasis members sends mail to actc or its
> | superceding authority and declares the intention of forming an
> | Oasis TC.
> 
> But latecomers have no way to discover what has been discussed,
> and others, perhaps thinking of setting up another committee on
> the same topic, don't know the discussion (on an OASIS-sponsored
> list, no less) is happening unless they caught the original Call
> for P.

Correct - there is a possibility that more than one group is thinking
the same thoughts. So? At this point the only thing that's happened
is that a call for participation may have been issued. At which 
point those who were also thinking the same thoughts will say
to themselves, 'too bad, let's just join up the list'...


> 
> | d) in due course, a mailing list is created; the main purpose
> | of which is to ensure
> | that those who subscribe to the list have an opportunity to
> | volunteer as TC (voting) members. Should this be archived? The
> 
> Actually, the point is also to formulate the charter of the
> prospective TC, else there would be no point in preliminary
> discussion.
> 
> | more I think about it the more I think not. The purpose of the
> | list at this point is non-technical; reviewing its archive would
> | not "enlighten" late-comers, and it should not. Once the TC
> 
> Why would it not, why should it not?

I wrote in shorthand. I meant that it should not enlighten the
latecomers on technical issues. My position is that there should
be no preliminary technical discussions. One may agree or not
with this position, but if you do agree then I believe you might
also agree that there should be no record of whatever technical
discussions took place, albeit 'inadvertently'.
> 
> | is started, technical discussion should start as if 'tabula
> | rasa', and all that has gone on before should be viewed as
> | irrelevant (in the sense that no decision arrived at before should
> | be seen as such). Having an archive of previous discussions would
> | seriously jeopardize this.
> 
> There is no tabula rasa, there's the charter.  I agree
> that the archive of the preliminary discussions isn't normative
> for the TC, but while discussing the charter it's sure useful
> to have.  And unless we set up some list of TCs-in-formation,
> the list of archives at xml.org/archives/ is all that's visible
> to the outside world about what's cooking.

I'm starting to think that, because the charter can be such an
important document (and I've seen it being manipulated right left
and center in the W3C in order to achieve certain goals) it would
be perhaps wise for a group to start with a preliminary charter,
or perhaps the word is tentative, that the TC, upon its formation,
has to ratify. Lots of people do not pay enough attention to charters,
and that comes back to bite them in the most unexpected places later on.
So yes, not tabula rasa as regards the charter, but also not with
a charter that cannot be modified before technical work starts.
> 
> | With flameproof gear in place,
> 
> Ah, you don't need it, Eduardo ...
> 
> regards, Terry

-- 
Eduardo Gutentag               |         e-mail: eduardo@eng.Sun.COM
XML Technology Center          |         Phone:  (650) 786-5498
Sun Microsystems Inc.          |         fax:    (650) 786-5727