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Subject: RE: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification


Mark, 
Eric sent the minutes out to the list on the 6th.
Alastair's motion was (US-) tabled

Martin.

>-----Original Message-----
>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com] 
>Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 4:57 PM
>To: Green, Alastair J.
>Cc: Newcomer, Eric; ws-caf
>Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>
>
>
>
>Green, Alastair J. wrote:
>
>>No, that's a mishearing or a misunderstanding.
>>
>>It was tabled without objection, i.e. deferred for 
>consideration at the 
>>next meeting.
>>  
>>
>OK. Like I said, I haven't seen the minutes, which is why I thought it 
>had been un-tabled.
>
>Mark.
>
>>I asked if there was a way of untabling it for an e-vote before the 
>>F2F, if the e-discussion got far enough to make things clear, and 
>>Martin felt not.
>>
>>I was trying to answer your concern about delay, while allowing time 
>>for the extra consideration to take place.
>>
>>So, I am still making arguments for my tabled motion, and 
>hoping others 
>>will chip in to put me right, or support me, or amend my proposal. 
>>Hopefully this will allow a rapid resolution right at the 
>start of the 
>>F2F.
>>
>>Alastair
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com]
>>Sent: 23 June 2005 15:48
>>To: Green, Alastair J.
>>Cc: Newcomer, Eric; ws-caf
>>Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>>
>>I haven't seen the minutes from Monday's call yet, but I thought the
>>motion was withdrawn pending further discussion. I seem to recall you 
>>saying you wanted to "un-table" it (my phrase).
>>
>>Mark.
>>
>>
>>Green, Alastair J. wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>We do have a proposal, which is my motion from the last 
>meeting, which 
>>>has been tabled. It was, to paraphrase: to have an optional 
>>>WS-Context-defined context-identifying attribute whose value 
>is a URI.
>>>
>>>I moved to table (U.S. English sense) on the grounds that Greg 
>>>believed (and Kevin disbelieved) that this feature was possible to 
>>>achieve through existing facilities (attribute extension, if I 
>>>understood correctly), and that therefore my proposal was moot, 
>>>unnecessary, redundant etc.
>>>
>>>On subsequent reflection, I'm not sure that the issue is
>>>    
>>>
>>XML-mechanical.
>>  
>>
>>>The proposal to have a value which is opaque is important in this 
>>>proposal. According to me, there are two ways you can do 
>this. All the 
>>>parties in a particular contractually-governed interaction can agree 
>>>that a header element attribute of name N, value type TV means: treat
>>>    
>>>
>>as
>>  
>>
>>>a context, or you can write that kind of convention down once in a 
>>>single standard specification, and decide what the value of N and TV
>>>    
>>>
>>are
>>  
>>
>>>within the standard spec's namespace etc.
>>>
>>>Contract or statute, if you like.
>>>
>>>However, I am not an expert in the mechanics of XML, and I've learnt 
>>>that those who are can throw a different light on these kinds of 
>>>statements or assumptions by non-experts like me.
>>>
>>>So I am waiting for someone who is a mechanical expert to 
>say: "that's
>>>    
>>>
>>a
>>  
>>
>>>wrong-headed way of posing the problem", or "OK, you are 
>right to pose 
>>>the problem in that way: implementation choices do not contradict or 
>>>alter the overall approach being considered".
>>>
>>>If the experts say the latter, then I think the statutory 
>approach is 
>>>preferable, which is my motion as it stands.
>>>
>>>This will give Kevin's customers the opportunity to build what he
>>>    
>>>
>>wants,
>>  
>>
>>>will give Peter's customers the opportunity to build what he wants,
>>>    
>>>
>>will
>>  
>>
>>>give the sceptics the opportunity to do nothing, and will clear the 
>>>issue off the table.
>>>
>>>Procedurally: if the mechanical experts will speak, then 
>once we have 
>>>listened to them we can either vote the tabled motion up or down at 
>>>the F2F, or we can have amendments etc to make counterproposals.
>>>
>>>Alastair
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com]
>>>Sent: 23 June 2005 15:09
>>>To: Newcomer, Eric
>>>Cc: ws-caf
>>>Subject: Re: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>>>
>>>I don't think so at the moment, but I'd like to think we could be by
>>>    
>>>
>>the
>>  
>>
>>>end of the week if we put our heads together and really 
>drive this as 
>>>a
>>>    
>>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>priority.
>>>
>>>Mark.
>>>
>>>
>>>Newcomer, Eric wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>    
>>>
>>>>Are we at the point at which we have one or more concrete proposals 
>>>>we can vote on?
>>>>
>>>>Eric
>>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Mark Little [mailto:mark.little@arjuna.com]
>>>>Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:36 AM
>>>>To: 'ws-caf'
>>>>Subject: [ws-caf] the issue on Context type identification
>>>>
>>>>I'm conscious that there has been very little follow up on the only
>>>>outstanding issue we have against WS-Context: whether or not (and 
>>>>potentially how) we can identify an element within a SOAP 
>header as a 
>>>>context. I'd like to encourage people to discuss this via 
>email before
>>>>      
>>>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>>the face-to-face next week so we can close this issue down quickly 
>>>>and
>>>>      
>>>>
>>
>>  
>>
>>>>move on to the WS-ACID specification.
>>>>
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>Mark.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>      
>>>>
>
>-- 
>Mark Little
>Chief Architect
>Arjuna Technologies Ltd
>(www.arjuna.com)
>
>



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