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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005


Lei Jin wrote:

>Recording the whole call is great for keeping records, but not so good
>if people just want to find out quickly what happened in this call.
>Perhaps we can have someone go through the recorded call and produce an
>accurate summary/minutes of the meeting.
>  
>
To record a telephone call (while also alowing the phone which is doing 
the recording to participate in the call) requires special
equipment.   This costs about 150 dollars for the proper equipment for 
this job.

I have thought about having a recording as a backup, for when such 
discrepancies are found between different people's memories of the
event.

However, minute takers can record the important happenings, leaving some 
of the "not so relevant" details out.  I do not see a recording
as taking the place of minutes.

Tom Rutt

>Lei
>
>
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jmarsh@microsoft.com] 
>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:47 PM
>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>
>>
>>Cool, then we could relive the whole call in real time!  That 
>>would certainly keep comments and corrections to a minimum...  ;-)
>>
>>    
>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
>>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:59 PM
>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>
>>>+1 to recording the minutes. Writing them down, especially on a
>>>concall
>>>where you can't actually see who is talking, is pretty 
>>>      
>>>
>>painfull. If we 
>>    
>>
>>>recorded the minutes we could pretend to be hip podcasters and all 
>>>that . . .
>>>
>>>- g
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortel.com]
>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:53 AM
>>>>To: Christopher B Ferris; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Basically, person X should be able to ensure that the minutes 
>>>>reflect what he/she said.
>>>>
>>>>Of course, you can solve all the problems by having the minutes 
>>>>recorded. This also solves the problem of appointing a scribe.
>>>>
>>>>Cheers,
>>>>Abbie
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com]
>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:22 AM
>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Ultimately, it is the TC that has responsibility for 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>approving the 
>>    
>>
>>>>>minutes. If someone requests a change, and the rest of the TC 
>>>>>disagrees with that change (revisionist history), then IMO
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>it should
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>not be made.
>>>>>
>>>>>Personally, I would tend to give the benefit of the 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>doubt to the 
>>    
>>
>>>>>person to whom scribed notes are attributed. Thus far, I
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>haven't seen
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>any changes requested that are inconsistent with my recollection
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>of
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>what was said on the call.
>>>>>
>>>>>As long as the requested changes are recorded on the email
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>list, that
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>should be more than adequate as a record of what was 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>changed. If 
>>    
>>
>>>>>someone chooses to take exception to a requested change,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>they should
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>do so on the list so that it can be discussed and reconciled in 
>>>>>accordance to the TC's wishes during the approval of 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>the minutes.
>>    
>>
>>>>>Maybe we should all be prefacing our spoken points during a
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>meeting
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>with:
>>>>>"permission
>>>>>to revise and extend my remarks for the record?" :-)
>>>>>
>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>
>>>>>Christopher Ferris
>>>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
>>>>>email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
>>>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
>>>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
>>>>>
>>>>>"Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortel.com> wrote on 08/19/2005 09:55:06
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>AM:
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>Ashok,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>History (views, reasons, etc..) changes(or can be 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>rewritten) (it 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>depends on who is recording it, have you read history books
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>in other
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>countries.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Having an amendment as you describe means whatever the
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>scirbe misheard
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>or misrecoreded will be documented regardless of what X has
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>stated on
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>the call, which should not be the case.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>Abbie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: Ashok Malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com]
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:36 AM
>>>>>>>To: Paul Cotton; Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>August 2005
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>Changing minutes can come close to rewriting 
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>history. In this 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>case, it is possible that the scribe misheard or 
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>misrecorded 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>Paul's words but, in the general case, someone can assert a 
>>>>>>>different position to what was taken on the telcon.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>I recommend, therefore, that the minutes not be 
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>changed but an 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>amendment record be added saying "X has requested the
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>following
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>changes to the minutes ...".
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>All the best, Ashok
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>From: Paul Cotton [mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com]
>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:12 AM
>>>>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>2005
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>Thanks for taking the minutes.  Here are some
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>proposed changes:
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>1.  Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>that took
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>place during (prior?) the forming of the charter. I
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>wouldn't have
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>permitted this (missed some of this)
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Please replace this with:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>that took
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>place
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>prior to the formation of the TC.  I want to make it
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>clear that
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>Microsoft never would have suggested that the charter
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>could be
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>changed since this is known to be against OASIS rules.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>2. >Paul: I'm going to vote against this. It will
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>divert the TCs
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>resources into a non-normative, non-exhaustive doc who's 
>>>>>>>>applicability to the work of the TC is unclear.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Please replace this with what I put into the Chat
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>dialogue and
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>which I read out:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Paul: I am going to vote against this proposal since it
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>recommends the
>>>>>>>>TC work on a non-normative, undecided scope, 
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>non-exhaustive 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>non-deliverable.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>3. >Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>referring
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>to XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>TC started
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>with completed specs as well as interop scenarios. I
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>think this
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>effort is beyond the need for use cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Please replace this with the following (I never used the
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>word
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>"completed"):
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>referring to
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>TC started
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>with well-defined contributed specs as well as interop
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>scenarios.
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>I think this effort is beyond the need for use cases.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>4. >Paul: That would be the URI for the RDL document?
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>(yes). The
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>RDL document would point you at the schema file?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Change "RDL" to "RDDL" everywhere it occurs.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>/paulc
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>>>>>>>>17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
>>>>>>>>Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 
>>>>>>>>mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
>>>>>>>>>Sent: August 18, 2005 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>August 2005
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>>Attached is the draft of the minutes. Please 
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>notify if you
>>    
>>
>>>>>>>>feel there
>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>anything missing or incorrect and I'll fix it before I
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>upload this
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>document (probably on Monday). I'm sorry for the parts
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>that
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>>>simply say
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>(back and forth) but when everyone talks at once it is
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>very hard to
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>catch what is being said.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>- g
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>
>  
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Tom Rutt	email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com
Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133




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