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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
Gilbert Pilz wrote: >I use VOIP to participate in the concalls. A quick google shows me that >there are a number of different ways I could record our calls (either >using a VOIP client that supports recording or a plug-in that taps into >my systems audio stream). If I can set this up, would the group allow me >to record our concalls? > > > would you be able to post the recording as an mp3 or other stream type to the meeting documents site (with member only access)? >- g > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Tom Rutt [mailto:tom@coastin.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:53 AM >>To: Lei Jin >>Cc: Jonathan Marsh; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005 >> >>Lei Jin wrote: >> >> >> >>>Recording the whole call is great for keeping records, but >>> >>> >>not so good >> >> >>>if people just want to find out quickly what happened in this call. >>>Perhaps we can have someone go through the recorded call and >>> >>> >>produce an >> >> >>>accurate summary/minutes of the meeting. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>To record a telephone call (while also alowing the phone >>which is doing the recording to participate in the call) >>requires special >>equipment. This costs about 150 dollars for the proper >>equipment for >>this job. >> >>I have thought about having a recording as a backup, for when >>such discrepancies are found between different people's >>memories of the event. >> >>However, minute takers can record the important happenings, >>leaving some of the "not so relevant" details out. I do not >>see a recording as taking the place of minutes. >> >>Tom Rutt >> >> >> >>>Lei >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>From: Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jmarsh@microsoft.com] >>>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:47 PM >>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005 >>>> >>>> >>>>Cool, then we could relive the whole call in real time! That would >>>>certainly keep comments and corrections to a minimum... ;-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com] >>>>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:59 PM >>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005 >>>>> >>>>>+1 to recording the minutes. Writing them down, especially on a >>>>>concall >>>>>where you can't actually see who is talking, is pretty >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>painfull. If we >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>recorded the minutes we could pretend to be hip podcasters and all >>>>>that . . . >>>>> >>>>>- g >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortel.com] >>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:53 AM >>>>>>To: Christopher B Ferris; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>Basically, person X should be able to ensure that the minutes >>>>>>reflect what he/she said. >>>>>> >>>>>>Of course, you can solve all the problems by having the minutes >>>>>>recorded. This also solves the problem of appointing a scribe. >>>>>> >>>>>>Cheers, >>>>>>Abbie >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com] >>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:22 AM >>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Ultimately, it is the TC that has responsibility for >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>approving the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>minutes. If someone requests a change, and the rest of the TC >>>>>>>disagrees with that change (revisionist history), then IMO >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>it should >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>not be made. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Personally, I would tend to give the benefit of the >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>doubt to the >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>person to whom scribed notes are attributed. Thus far, I >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>haven't seen >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>any changes requested that are inconsistent with my recollection >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>of >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>what was said on the call. >>>>>>> >>>>>>>As long as the requested changes are recorded on the email >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>list, that >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>should be more than adequate as a record of what was >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>changed. If >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>someone chooses to take exception to a requested change, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>they should >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>do so on the list so that it can be discussed and reconciled in >>>>>>>accordance to the TC's wishes during the approval of >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>the minutes. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>Maybe we should all be prefacing our spoken points during a >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>meeting >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>with: >>>>>>>"permission >>>>>>>to revise and extend my remarks for the record?" :-) >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Cheers, >>>>>>> >>>>>>>Christopher Ferris >>>>>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture >>>>>>>email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com >>>>>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html >>>>>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295 >>>>>>> >>>>>>>"Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortel.com> wrote on 08/19/2005 09:55:06 >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>AM: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>Ashok, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>History (views, reasons, etc..) changes(or can be >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>rewritten) (it >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>depends on who is recording it, have you read history books >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>in other >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>countries. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Having an amendment as you describe means whatever the >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>scirbe misheard >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>or misrecoreded will be documented regardless of what X has >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>stated on >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>the call, which should not be the case. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>Cheers, >>>>>>>>Abbie >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>From: Ashok Malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com] >>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:36 AM >>>>>>>>>To: Paul Cotton; Gilbert Pilz >>>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>August 2005 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>Changing minutes can come close to rewriting >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>history. In this >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>case, it is possible that the scribe misheard or >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>misrecorded >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>Paul's words but, in the general case, someone can assert a >>>>>>>>>different position to what was taken on the telcon. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>I recommend, therefore, that the minutes not be >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>changed but an >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>amendment record be added saying "X has requested the >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>following >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>changes to the minutes ...". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>All the best, Ashok >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>From: Paul Cotton [mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com] >>>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:12 AM >>>>>>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz >>>>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>2005 >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Thanks for taking the minutes. Here are some >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>proposed changes: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>1. Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>that took >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>place during (prior?) the forming of the charter. I >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>wouldn't have >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>permitted this (missed some of this) >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>that took >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>place >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>prior to the formation of the TC. I want to make it >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>clear that >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Microsoft never would have suggested that the charter >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>could be >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>changed since this is known to be against OASIS rules. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>2. >Paul: I'm going to vote against this. It will >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>divert the TCs >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>resources into a non-normative, non-exhaustive doc who's >>>>>>>>>>applicability to the work of the TC is unclear. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with what I put into the Chat >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>dialogue and >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>which I read out: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Paul: I am going to vote against this proposal since it >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>recommends the >>>>>>>>>>TC work on a non-normative, undecided scope, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>non-exhaustive >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>non-deliverable. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>3. >Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>referring >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>to XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>TC started >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>with completed specs as well as interop scenarios. I >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>think this >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>effort is beyond the need for use cases. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with the following (I never used the >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>word >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>"completed"): >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>referring to >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>TC started >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>with well-defined contributed specs as well as interop >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>scenarios. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>I think this effort is beyond the need for use cases. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>4. >Paul: That would be the URI for the RDL document? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>(yes). The >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>RDL document would point you at the schema file? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Change "RDL" to "RDDL" everywhere it occurs. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>/paulc >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada >>>>>>>>>>17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3 >>>>>>>>>>Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 >>>>>>>>>>mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com] >>>>>>>>>>>Sent: August 18, 2005 8:40 PM >>>>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>August 2005 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>>Attached is the draft of the minutes. Please >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>notify if you >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>>>>>>>feel there >>>>>>>>>>is >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>anything missing or incorrect and I'll fix it before I >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>upload this >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>document (probably on Monday). I'm sorry for the parts >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>that >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>>>>simply say >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>(back and forth) but when everyone talks at once it is >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>very hard to >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>catch what is being said. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>- g >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>-- >>---------------------------------------------------- >>Tom Rutt email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com >>Tel: +1 732 801 5744 Fax: +1 732 774 5133 >> >> >> >> >> > > > -- ---------------------------------------------------- Tom Rutt email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com Tel: +1 732 801 5744 Fax: +1 732 774 5133
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