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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005


Gilbert Pilz wrote:

>I use VOIP to participate in the concalls. A quick google shows me that
>there are a number of different ways I could record our calls (either
>using a VOIP client that supports recording or a plug-in that taps into
>my systems audio stream). If I can set this up, would the group allow me
>to record our concalls?
>
>  
>
would you be able to post the recording as an mp3 or other stream type 
to the meeting documents site (with member only access)?

>- g 
>
>  
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Tom Rutt [mailto:tom@coastin.com] 
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 8:53 AM
>>To: Lei Jin
>>Cc: Jonathan Marsh; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>Subject: Re: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>
>>Lei Jin wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Recording the whole call is great for keeping records, but 
>>>      
>>>
>>not so good 
>>    
>>
>>>if people just want to find out quickly what happened in this call.
>>>Perhaps we can have someone go through the recorded call and 
>>>      
>>>
>>produce an 
>>    
>>
>>>accurate summary/minutes of the meeting.
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>To record a telephone call (while also alowing the phone 
>>which is doing the recording to participate in the call) 
>>requires special
>>equipment.   This costs about 150 dollars for the proper 
>>equipment for 
>>this job.
>>
>>I have thought about having a recording as a backup, for when 
>>such discrepancies are found between different people's 
>>memories of the event.
>>
>>However, minute takers can record the important happenings, 
>>leaving some of the "not so relevant" details out.  I do not 
>>see a recording as taking the place of minutes.
>>
>>Tom Rutt
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Lei
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Jonathan Marsh [mailto:jmarsh@microsoft.com]
>>>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:47 PM
>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Cool, then we could relive the whole call in real time!  That would 
>>>>certainly keep comments and corrections to a minimum...  ;-)
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
>>>>>Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:59 PM
>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>>
>>>>>+1 to recording the minutes. Writing them down, especially on a
>>>>>concall
>>>>>where you can't actually see who is talking, is pretty
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>painfull. If we
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>recorded the minutes we could pretend to be hip podcasters and all 
>>>>>that . . .
>>>>>
>>>>>- g
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>From: Abbie Barbir [mailto:abbieb@nortel.com]
>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 7:53 AM
>>>>>>To: Christopher B Ferris; ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Basically, person X should be able to ensure that the minutes 
>>>>>>reflect what he/she said.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Of course, you can solve all the problems by having the minutes 
>>>>>>recorded. This also solves the problem of appointing a scribe.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>Abbie
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>From: Christopher B Ferris [mailto:chrisfer@us.ibm.com]
>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 10:22 AM
>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August 2005
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Ultimately, it is the TC that has responsibility for
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>approving the
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>minutes. If someone requests a change, and the rest of the TC 
>>>>>>>disagrees with that change (revisionist history), then IMO
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>it should
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>not be made.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Personally, I would tend to give the benefit of the
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>doubt to the
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>person to whom scribed notes are attributed. Thus far, I
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>haven't seen
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>any changes requested that are inconsistent with my recollection
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>what was said on the call.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>As long as the requested changes are recorded on the email
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>list, that
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>should be more than adequate as a record of what was
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>changed. If
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>someone chooses to take exception to a requested change,
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>they should
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>do so on the list so that it can be discussed and reconciled in 
>>>>>>>accordance to the TC's wishes during the approval of
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>the minutes.
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>Maybe we should all be prefacing our spoken points during a
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>meeting
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>with:
>>>>>>>"permission
>>>>>>>to revise and extend my remarks for the record?" :-)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Christopher Ferris
>>>>>>>STSM, Emerging e-business Industry Architecture
>>>>>>>email: chrisfer@us.ibm.com
>>>>>>>blog: http://webpages.charter.net/chrisfer/blog.html
>>>>>>>phone: +1 508 377 9295
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>"Abbie Barbir" <abbieb@nortel.com> wrote on 08/19/2005 09:55:06
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>AM:
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Ashok,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>History (views, reasons, etc..) changes(or can be
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>rewritten) (it
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>depends on who is recording it, have you read history books
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>in other
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>countries.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Having an amendment as you describe means whatever the
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>scirbe misheard
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>or misrecoreded will be documented regardless of what X has
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>stated on
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>the call, which should not be the case.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>Cheers,
>>>>>>>>Abbie
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>           
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>                
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>From: Ashok Malhotra [mailto:ashok.malhotra@oracle.com]
>>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 9:36 AM
>>>>>>>>>To: Paul Cotton; Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>August 2005
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Changing minutes can come close to rewriting
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>history. In this
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>case, it is possible that the scribe misheard or
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>misrecorded
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>Paul's words but, in the general case, someone can assert a 
>>>>>>>>>different position to what was taken on the telcon.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>I recommend, therefore, that the minutes not be
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>changed but an
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>amendment record be added saying "X has requested the
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>following
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>changes to the minutes ...".
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>All the best, Ashok
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>From: Paul Cotton [mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com]
>>>>>>>>>>Sent: Friday, August 19, 2005 5:12 AM
>>>>>>>>>>To: Gilbert Pilz
>>>>>>>>>>Cc: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>>Subject: RE: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18 August
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>2005
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Thanks for taking the minutes.  Here are some
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>proposed changes:
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>1.  Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>that took
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>place during (prior?) the forming of the charter. I
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>wouldn't have
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>permitted this (missed some of this)
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>Paul: David spoke directly about some discussions
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                        
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>that took
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>place
>>>>>>>>>>>>                   
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>                        
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>prior to the formation of the TC.  I want to make it
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>clear that
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Microsoft never would have suggested that the charter
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>could be
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>changed since this is known to be against OASIS rules.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>2. >Paul: I'm going to vote against this. It will
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>divert the TCs
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>resources into a non-normative, non-exhaustive doc who's 
>>>>>>>>>>applicability to the work of the TC is unclear.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with what I put into the Chat
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>dialogue and
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>which I read out:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Paul: I am going to vote against this proposal since it
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>recommends the
>>>>>>>>>>TC work on a non-normative, undecided scope,
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>non-exhaustive
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>non-deliverable.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>3. >Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>referring
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>to XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>TC started
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>with completed specs as well as interop scenarios. I
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>think this
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>effort is beyond the need for use cases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Please replace this with the following (I never used the
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>word
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>"completed"):
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Paul: I won't disagree with you. I take it you are
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>referring to
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>XQuery? That effort started with a blank slate. This
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>TC started
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>with well-defined contributed specs as well as interop
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>scenarios.
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>I think this effort is beyond the need for use cases.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>4. >Paul: That would be the URI for the RDL document?
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>(yes). The
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>RDL document would point you at the schema file?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Change "RDL" to "RDDL" everywhere it occurs.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>/paulc
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>Paul Cotton, Microsoft Canada
>>>>>>>>>>17 Eleanor Drive, Nepean, Ontario K2E 6A3
>>>>>>>>>>Tel: (613) 225-5445 Fax: (425) 936-7329 
>>>>>>>>>>mailto:pcotton@microsoft.com
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>>>>>From: Gilbert Pilz [mailto:Gilbert.Pilz@bea.com]
>>>>>>>>>>>Sent: August 18, 2005 8:40 PM
>>>>>>>>>>>To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>>>>>>>>>>>Subject: [ws-rx] Draft teleconf minutes for 18
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>August 2005
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>Attached is the draft of the minutes. Please
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>notify if you
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>feel there
>>>>>>>>>>is
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>anything missing or incorrect and I'll fix it before I
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>upload this
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>document (probably on Monday). I'm sorry for the parts
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>that
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>simply say
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>(back and forth) but when everyone talks at once it is
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>very hard to
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>catch what is being said.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>- g
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                 
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>                      
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>               
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>                    
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>             
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>                  
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>         
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>              
>>>>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>--
>>----------------------------------------------------
>>Tom Rutt	email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com
>>Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133
>>
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>


-- 
----------------------------------------------------
Tom Rutt	email: tom@coastin.com; trutt@us.fujitsu.com
Tel: +1 732 801 5744          Fax: +1 732 774 5133




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