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Subject: Re: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used in AcksTo


As to the question of why one would use anonymous IRI for wsa:To:
WS-Addressing spec actually requires you to do so in certain cases. 
Specifically, in the case of the req-res scenario where the wsa:ReplyTo 
of the request message is an 'anon' IRI the value of wsa:To of the 
response message must be 'anon' IRI. See [1]. 'anon' IRI is also to 
default for wsa:To, so if there is no value specified then it is 'anon' IRI.

The use of 'anon' IRI in wsa:To message makes sense on the response 
message in case of SOAP/HTTP. I don't know what it would mean (or why it 
would be used) in other cases.

Doug: I think this (what does 'anon' URI mean for wsa:To) is a good 
catch from the perspective of WS-Addressing. It would be fruitful to 
provide this as a CR comment.

But the wsa:To issue is a more general issue whereas AcksTo is a 
specific issue for WSRM.

In resolving LC20 [2] WS-Addressing made a specific decision to not 
define exactly what 'anon' IRI means in the Core spec and left it to the 
binding specs. SOAP binding does define it for ReplyTo and FaultTo, but 
not for others (I think this is an oversight, but don't recall the full 
discussion). IMHO, it would be useful to have WS-Addressing SOAP binding 
define (or provide guidance on) what 'anon' IRI means for SOAP/HTTP in 
all cases and not just ReplyTo and FaultTo. The EndpontReferenceType is 
meant to be reused by other specs (WSRM has AcksTo, WS-Eventing has 
wse:NotifyTo, WS-Notification has wsnt:SubscriptionReference, 
wsnt:ProducerReference etc) and having the meaning of 'anon' IRI (which 
is very useful for SOAP/HTTP) for all EndpointReferenceTypes (in the 
context of SOAP/HTTP) would serve a very useful purpose.

But I haven't thought it through, perhaps there are reasons why defining 
the 'anon' IRI for SOAP/HTTP binding in every case does not make sense 
-- in which case, we should define in WSRM spec what we need (for AcksTo 
EPR).

Comments?

-Anish
--

[1] http://www.w3.org/TR/2005/CR-ws-addr-core-20050817/#formreplymsg
[2] http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/addr/lc-issues/#lc20

Doug Davis wrote:
> 
> Personally, I'm not sure what an anonymous wsa:To means either  :-)  but 
> its allowed, and its actually the default value if wsa:To is not specified.
> The only similarity I was trying to make was that if WSA doesn't need to 
> say what an anonymous wsa:To means then we might not need to say what an 
> anonymous AcksTo
> means - it could just be obvious.  But its 8pm on Friday and I might not 
> be thinking straight since I'm also choosing to actually continue to 
> work instead of doing something else....sigh
> thanks,
> -Doug
> 
> 
> "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com> wrote on 09/09/2005 07:25:20 PM:
> 
>  > I fail to understand the similarity or more simply why one would use 
> anonymous IRI
>  > for "To".  Where would you send the initial message?  /dev/null ;-)
>  >  
>  > AcksTo EPR using anon IRI is different, it is piggybacking on the 
> existing channel
>  > provided by the binding, similar to ReplyTo and Fault which 
> corresponds to a kind
>  > of "response". Acknowledgement is a kind of response.
>  >  
>  > --umit
>  >  
>  >
>  > From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
>  > Sent: Friday, Sep 09, 2005 3:47 PM
>  > To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>  > Subject: RE: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used 
> in AcksTo
> 
>  >
>  > Right - it talks about ReplyTo and FaultTo but not "To".  So, we can 
> either assume
>  > that it is implicitly talking about "To" which means wecan  make the 
> same
>  > assumption for AcksTo.  Or we can assume that silence on "To" implies 
> something
>  > else - like "its obvious". dunno.  Whatever that assumption is, we 
> can probably
>  > carry it over to the AcksTo EPR :-)
>  > thanks,
>  > -Doug
>  >
>  >
> 
>  >
>  > "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
>  > 09/09/2005 06:24 PM
>  >
>  > To
>  >
>  > Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >
>  > cc
>  >
>  > Subject
>  >
>  > RE: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used in AcksTo
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Hmm. I am wondering whether we are looking at different versions of 
> the soap
>  > binding spec. The current editor's copy [1] has the following 
> statement in Section
>  > 3.5 (Anish was suggesting adding basically a similar language to our 
> spec in this thread).
>  >  
>  > {
>  > When "http://www.w3.org/@@@@/@@/addressing/anonymous"; is specified as 
> the address
>  > of the ReplyTo or FaultTo EPR, the underlying SOAP protocol binding 
> provides a
>  > channel to the specified endpoint. Any underlying protocol binding 
> supporting the
>  > SOAP request-response message exchange pattern provides such a 
> channel. For
>  > instance, the SOAP 1.2 HTTP binding[SOAP 1.2 Part 2: Adjuncts] puts 
> the reply
>  > message in the HTTP response.
>  > }
>  >  
>  >  
>  > --umit
>  >  
>  > [1] 
> http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2004/ws/addressing/ws-addr-soap.html?
>  > content-type=text/html;%20charset=utf-8#soaphttp
>  >
>  > From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
>  > Sent: Friday, Sep 09, 2005 1:57 PM
>  > To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>  > Subject: RE: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used 
> in AcksTo
>  >
>  >
>  > I saw no mention of what an anonymous wsa:To means in the soap 
> binding spec - but
>  > perhaps I missed it.  If not, then they're silent on it.
>  > thanks,
>  > -Doug
>  >
> 
>  >
>  > "Yalcinalp, Umit" <umit.yalcinalp@sap.com>
>  > 09/09/2005 04:43 PM
>  >
>  > To
>  >
>  > Doug Davis/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS, <ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org>
>  >
>  > cc
>  >
>  > Subject
>  >
>  > RE: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used in AcksTo
>  >
>  >
> 
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  > Doug,
>  >  
>  > I think it is incorrect to characterize that WS-Addressing is silent. 
> It just
>  > defers the definition to the binding where it belongs to the extent 
> of how the
>  > definition is used for WS-Addressing purposes only.
>  >  
>  > I would be very much in favor of (a) or (b) for our own spec. If (b) 
> can not be
>  > coordinated with WS-Addressing wg (we need to do that rather fast due 
> to the
>  > timelines of WS-Addressing) , we should definitely explore (a).
>  >  
>  > Cheers,
>  >  
>  > --umit
>  >  
>  >
>  > From: Doug Davis [mailto:dug@us.ibm.com]
>  > Sent: Friday, Sep 09, 2005 11:42 AM
>  > To: ws-rx@lists.oasis-open.org
>  > Subject: Re: [ws-rx] NEW ISSUE: What does 'anon' URI mean when used 
> in AcksTo
>  >
>  >
>  > Is WS-Addressing's silence on what it means to use the anonymous IRI 
> in the wsa:To
>  > header mean that it should be obvious to the reader?  If so, then 
> perhaps we can
>  > take the same approach to its use in other places that WS-Addressing 
> is silent as
>  > well - for example, AcksTo - and say nothing and assume its obvious 
> to the reader.
>  > thanks
>  > -Doug
>  >
>  >
>  > Anish Karmarkar <Anish.Karmarkar@oracle.com> wrote on 09/09/2005 
> 02:20:12 AM:
>  >
>  > > As discussed on the call today, I'm raising an issue about the meaning
>  > > of 'anon' URI when used in AcksTo URI.
>  > >
>  > > Title:
>  > >
>  > > What does 'anon' URI mean when used in AcksTo EPR?
>  > >
>  > > Description:
>  > >
>  > > WS-Addressing Core [1], section 2.1 says the following about 'anon':
>  > >
>  > > "Some endpoints cannot be located with a meaningful IRI; this URI is
>  > > used to allow such endpoints to send and receive messages. The precise
>  > > meaning of this URI is defined by the binding of Addressing to a
>  > > specific protocol."
>  > >
>  > > WS-Addressing SOAP binding [2] defines what the 'anon' address means
>  > > when used with ReplyTo and FaultTo in SOAP and SOAP/HTTP binding. It
>  > > does not say anything about what it means when used in other headers
>  > > such as AcksTo.
>  > >
>  > > Justification:
>  > >
>  > > WSRM defines AcksTo element of type EndpointReferenceType and allows
>  > > 'anon' URI for the address. But the meaning of such an anon address is
>  > > not defined anywhere.
>  > >
>  > > Target:
>  > >
>  > > core, soap
>  > >
>  > > Type:
>  > >
>  > > design
>  > >
>  > > Proposal:
>  > >
>  > > This can be resolved by:
>  > >
>  > > a) Adding a stmt similar to WS-Addressing SOAP binding. Something like:
>  > >
>  > > "When "http://www.w3.org/2005/08/addressing/anonymous"; is specified as
>  > > the address of the wsrm:AcksTo EPR, the underlying SOAP protocol 
> binding
>  > > provides a channel to the specified endpoint. Any underlying protocol
>  > > binding supporting the SOAP request-response message exchange pattern
>  > > provides such a channel. For instance, the SOAP 1.2 HTTP binding[SOAP
>  > > 1.2 Part 2: Adjuncts] puts the reply message in the HTTP response."
>  > >
>  > > OR
>  > >
>  > > b) we could ask the WS-Addressing WG to fix their SOAP binding to
>  > > include not just ReplyTo and FaultTo EPRs but any EPR when used in the
>  > > context of SOAP/HTTP binding.
>  > >
>  > > I prefer that we do (b). If they refuse, we can do (a)
>  > >
>  > > Related issues:
>  > > i012
>  > >
>  > >


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